Quote:
Originally Posted by Weather Man
Green Insanity hocus pocus math attempts to obscure the reality that there is no free lunch moving thousands of pounds down the road. The inputs and outputs get moved around and in the case of EV's the sum total game is often much worse than ICE. Save Gaia and Stop Oil are based on emotional fantasy that is being made into national policy that will have disastrous consequences for many. As always, the poor's will take it up the rear.
My god, watch any Biden environmental official testifying before any house or senate committee, they are completely clueless on anything related to facts or numbers! They parrot rote Green Insanity talking points issued by various Green Insanity groups. People keep thinking the adults will show up when the Green nut jobs are the only ones in the room! They don't give two shits for regular Joes or how much of his money they blow!
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
What drives me up the wall about MPG vs MPGe is that for ICE cars, the inherent inefficiency of the engines are baked into the MPG number that you get. But when it comes to MPGe, you completely ignore the fact that the grid is about only 40% efficient at best? It's nonsensical and just makes EV's look far more efficient than they are.
Basic physics. Heavier vehicles consume more energy, and that comes out in calculations such as these when you run through the math. The reason for the dishonesty is because then EV's wouldn't sell at all, and they wouldn't be able to gaslight people about how they're saving the environment when they're really not. To charge a 100 kWh battery, the grid itself has to consume 250-300 kWh worth of energy to produce that, and they pretend that's not the case with the MPGe number and hope you don't notice.
ICE/hybrids are the most energy efficient vehicles on the road due to both the hybrid engines which are typically Atkinson cycle and hitting 40% peak thermal efficiency which matches the what the grid delivers, while not lugging around extremely heavy 1000+ lb battery packs everywhere they go.
What you say about fuel production is true, and similar costs apply to battery production through mining hundreds of thousands of pounds of earth per battery, transporting that, refining it, processing it, etc. It's getting into the weeds and becomes impossible to calculate. Insiders who truly know the costs probably aren't allowed to tell.
|
Just to be clear, I am not endorsing EV or bashing ICE. Just pointing out that people are using energy loss as an argument against EVs and ignoring the energy loss for ICE, and why the complicated calculations for true energy usage necessitate MPG and MPGe as the benchmarks.
IMO, EV is a great concept and one day it will make sense for all forms of road transportation. But in the near term, there are some significant growing pains.
Lastly, both the rabid EV and ICE proponents obfuscate, manipulate statistics, and flat out lie. Then there are the people in the middle, like us, who have to live with the decisions.
p.s. EVs will never replace the visceral feeling of a big boar V8, or a high revving V12, at WOT.