[HotIce]

C63 AMG Black Series (C63 AMG P31)

Tyres: Dunlop Sport Maxx Race M0 (C63 AMG Coupé PP: Continental SportContact 5P)
Weight: 1748 kg (C63 AMG Coupé PP: 1770 kg)
0-200 km/h: 13,9 s (C63 AMG Coupé PP: 13,7 s)
Hockenheimring: 1.10,6 min (C63 AMG Coupé PP: 1.13,6 min)
Nordschleife: 7.46 min (C63 AMG Coupé PP: 8.01 min)
Wet handling: 1.42,1 min

For Comparisons sake:

Pre facelift C63 Sedan (with Michelin Pilot Sport): 8:13 minutes
E92 M3 (with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup): 8:05 minutes
CLK63 Black Series (with Pirelli P Zero Corsa): 8:05 minutes
CLK DTM AMG (with Dunlop SP Super Sport Race): 7:54 minutes
SL65 Black Series (with Dunlop Sport Maxx GT): 7:51 minutes
E92 M3 GTS (with Pirelli P Zero Corsa): 7:48 minutes
SLS AMG (with Conti Sport Contact 5): 7:40 minutes

[wisesoul]

Odd how BS is slower 0-200 km/h. Must be drag from larger fenders and more downforce? N ring time is nice. M3 GTS is slower and more pricey lol

[driftster]

Actually Wise...The BS is more expensive..

The Black series didn't accomplish this lap time until it was kitted with the Aero package and Track pack....

Those two bring the price up to 144.000 EU...That's about 8.000 more

Not to mention the whole Dunlop Race M0's (NON DOT approved race tire) Vs the GTS's P Zero Corsa's..(DOT Friendly)..

I'd say that says volumes for the M3.... 70 less Horses and nearly 200Ftlbs down on the competition, lower quality tires for the application, tighter gearing and still within 2 seconds around a 12 mile course.

[Shuke]

Originally Posted by driftster

Actually Wise...The BS is more expensive..

The Black series didn't accomplish this lap time until it was kitted with the Aero package and Track pack....

Those two bring the price up to 144.000 EU...That's about 8.000 more

Not to mention the whole Dunlop Race M0's (NON DOT approved race tire) Vs the GTS's P Zero Corsa's..(DOT Friendly)..

I'd say that says volumes for the M3.... 70 less Horses and nearly 200Ftlbs down on the competition, lower quality tires for the application, tighter gearing and still within 2 seconds around a 12 mile course.

The M3 GTS is also 500 lbs lighter, which is worth far more than the hp and tq advantage the Black Series has over it.
The GTS has a roll cage, a true dual clutch transmission and is so much lighter yet still didnt put down that good of a time.
The C63 Black is still a DD'able car with all the amenities wheras the GTS is not.

[driftster]

Originally Posted by Shuke

The M3 GTS is also 500 lbs lighter, which is worth far more than the hp and tq advantage the Black Series has over it.
The GTS has a roll cage, a true dual clutch transmission and is so much lighter yet still didnt put down that good of a time.
The C63 Black is still a DD'able car with all the amenities wheras the GTS is not.

So a roll cage makes the car non DD'able....However NON-street legal tires, which means simply tires illegal to drive on a daily basis....Are DD'able...

That doesn't make much sense..

Also, the M3 GTS's 3370 is not 500lbs lighter than the C63's 3700..

ONTOP of that, looking comparatively...The C63 Black series cut as much poundage off of it's base model as the M3 GTS did.. (265 vs 235 lbs lost are the actual figures)...

So now you're looking at two cars which have both lost ~250lbs....ONE has had the suspension tuned (M3 GTS) One has had the suspension completely overhauled and replaced with non-model specific parts (c63) ONE has DOT R compounds (M3) One has NON-DOT race slicks (C63 BS + TP)

Yes one has a Dual clutch while Benz is working with the MCT...but the MCT is absolute LIGHT years ahead of the box found in the CLK...Sure, in the world of automotive journalism the DCT is gots gift to man..but really, the MCT isn't but a pebbles throw away from the DCT....

I personally would rather have a Manual in either case, but that's a dieing breed.

[Shuke]

Originally Posted by driftster

So a roll cage makes the car non DD'able....However NON-street legal tires, which means simply tires illegal to drive on a daily basis....Are DD'able...

That doesn't make much sense..

Also, the M3 GTS's 3370 is not 500lbs lighter than the C63's 3700..

ONTOP of that, looking comparatively...The C63 Black series cut as much poundage off of it's base model as the M3 GTS did.. (265 vs 235 lbs lost are the actual figures)...

So now you're looking at two cars which have both lost ~250lbs....ONE has had the suspension tuned (M3 GTS) One has had the suspension completely overhauled and replaced with non-model specific parts (c63) ONE has DOT R compounds (M3) One has NON-DOT race slicks (C63 BS + TP)

Yes one has a Dual clutch while Benz is working with the MCT...but the MCT is absolute LIGHT years ahead of the box found in the CLK...Sure, in the world of automotive journalism the DCT is gots gift to man..but really, the MCT isn't but a pebbles throw away from the DCT....

I personally would rather have a Manual in either case, but that's a dieing breed.

Youre wrong on the Black Series weight. Above it says 1748 kg, or 3846 lbs. Less the 3370 from the GTS is 476lbs. Nothing at all to scoff at and as I said about 500 lbs. Even 150 lbs on the track makes a difference.

DCT is good and MCT is just slightly behind but still not as good.

The GTS also has race seats and IIRC no AC or Radio, which is why I said it is not as good of a DD.

No way those tires come on a Black Series sold in the US, they were probably just used for the test.

Id also prefer a manual. At least we know Porsche will always give them to us if we dont want the best dual clutch on the market in the PDK option.

[driftster]

Originally Posted by Shuke

Youre wrong on the Black Series weight. Above it says 1748 kg, or 3846 lbs. Less the 3370 from the GTS is 476lbs. Nothing at all to scoff at and as I said about 500 lbs. Even 150 lbs on the track makes a difference.

Everything i've read has said 1 of 2 things... 3770 curb weight, and the shedding of 235lbs... Both of which point in the direction of a 3700lb curb weight over 3800...Especially considering the C63 AMG coupe weights in 3800 itself, loaded to the tooth all 4 seats no CF no lightweight treatment yadda yadda..

The GTS also has race seats and IIRC no AC or Radio, which is why I said it is not as good of a DD.

The GTS does have Air conditioning, No radio...The GTS has race seats, AS does the Black series...Remember it's only State side that the black series don't get the "race quality" buckets in AMG cars..but since the GTS isn't a state side car anyway that's neither here nor there..

No way those tires come on a Black Series sold in the US, they were probably just used for the test.

That's the track package...It's a set of Dunlop Sport Maxx Race M0's.. Non DOT race rubbers..The Track package and Aero Package are the reasons this car turned this time... Without those tires and that aero it isn't doing a 7:46 much like without the P Zero's the GTS isn't doing the 7:48

Id also prefer a manual. At least we know Porsche will always give them to us if we dont want the best dual clutch on the market in the PDK option.

Funniest point of this...The seemingly "bargin bin" model Porsche C4S outdoes both of these cars for substantially less coin

[Shuke]

Originally Posted by driftster

Everything i've read has said 1 of 2 things... 3770 curb weight, and the shedding of 235lbs... Both of which point in the direction of a 3700lb curb weight over 3800...Especially considering the C63 AMG coupe weights in 3800 itself, loaded to the tooth all 4 seats no CF no lightweight treatment yadda yadda..



The GTS does have Air conditioning, No radio...The GTS has race seats, AS does the Black series...Remember it's only State side that the black series don't get the "race quality" buckets in AMG cars..but since the GTS isn't a state side car anyway that's neither here nor there..



That's the track package...It's a set of Dunlop Sport Maxx Race M0's.. Non DOT race rubbers..The Track package and Aero Package are the reasons this car turned this time... Without those tires and that aero it isn't doing a 7:46 much like without the P Zero's the GTS isn't doing the 7:48



Funniest point of this...The seemingly "bargin bin" model Porsche C4S outdoes both of these cars for substantially less coin

Fair enough on most points.

And yes the C4S is an amazing car.

The even more amazing thing is, the new 991 S with a curb weight of 3200-3300 lbs and only 400 hp laps the Ring in 7:40 a good amount faster than both the GTS and Black series esp considering it was likely done on PS2 or PSS tires. Even the 458 italia with 570 hp isnt faster than what is a lower line 911.

[driftster]

So it's settled...

Porsche rules the world......yet again

[Tony135]

I love the P31 package. My buddy has one and it's too much fun.

[1BMW4fun]

What does DOT and non DOT tire matter in this. I thought DOT is on US standard. And how is the M3 70hp less? To me, the GTS is a bit disappointing.