[uhaulball]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

unless you had hundreds of drives or are a statistical miracle

even if you have been keeping your drives for WAY to long, theres still no way you have seen 10 HDD failures

hard drives dont have a failure rate anywhere near that high, YOU have been doing something wrong, either not cooling them properly, maybe you though RAID was a good idea, maybe you dropped them IDK



your the sky is falling crap is kind of dumb, and as for 2 TB being a "chunk of change" i dont know what hard drives your buying, but they better be diamond encrusted for only 2 TB to be a "chunk of change" otherwise your not actually in the enthusiast market which makes me even more skeptical of your failures


oh and as for "hard drives not lasting as long as they used to"

k you go buy 150 old 5gb HDDs, and ill go buy 1 new age 750gb hdd, lets see who loses data first

new hdds are much more reliable then the old when you think about it from the proper perspective

u have the coolest signature

[txusa03]

Attention: This will save many of you alot of headache. Introducing drobo.

Take a look:http://reviews.cnet.com/hard-drives/...-32470303.html

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by txusa03

Attention: This will save many of you alot of headache. Introducing drobo.

Take a look:http://reviews.cnet.com/hard-drives/...-32470303.html

hey I like this idea but no ethernet support yet...
I'll keep my eye on this one

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

Well seeing how you're in FL, I don't know how you can call BS? It's not like you KNOW me.
I myself have had 10 drives die. Why would I RANT about it? I don't work for a HD conspiracy group.

My drives are cooled down properly as a "normal" home user would. Do I have a dedicated refrigerated room for my server? No. But this was MY rant and maybe had NO merit to what everyone else in the world is seeing, just my observations.

Look at the class action suit against IBM and their Deskstar drives. I had 4 of those bad boys die on me.

For the typical home user, 2TB's for just storage is quite a bit. I run RAID to mirror my data from my backups. Yes my drives are always spinning and I do a lot of large data transfers between drives. Maybe that's my problem... I haven't bought any diamond encrusted drives and I should but then again, I have no need for $300 HD's when the $100.00 work just as well.

I may not be an enthusiast as you are but then again, maybe you've just had better luck with your drives.

well there you go, thats EXACTLY why your drives are failing, your using your hard drives in server applications AND USING "NORMAL HOME USER COOLING" methods...

you need at LEAST a dedicated fan on your hard drives if they are being used at such high load, that SHOULD have been common sense, there is a REASON server rooms are heavily climate controlled (well thats not really why but they get away with it that way)


2 TB is a lot for a normal person yes (and by normal i meen someone who bought their PC from dell or something) i run 1.5 TB i know a ton of people who run more on their normal home desktop, i also personally have a dedicated 100CFM cooling per 2 HDDs

but the point was 2 tb doesnt cost a "good chunk of change" now a days, you can get that much for about 400$ which in a PC that needs 2 tb that should be a fart in the wind in terms of cost comparison


back to the main point though, if your drives are always under high load COOL THEM PROPERLY, if i were you i would even have a supplemental heatsink on them

furthermore, if your often transferring data between hard drives, how many of these "failures" was hardware and how many file table corruption? what your doing is highly susceptible to both, ESPECIALLY since your apparently running RAID, raid has a higher risk for corruption and your doubling your usage for the same amount of data (what type of array are you actually running)

your basically doing 3 things that kill drives

1. run them at high load w/o proper cooling;
2. erasing and rewriting data on a large scale often
3. running a raid array which is already more susceptible to corruption and then using it in a very high load (which multiplies your risk)


and yes many servers run raid, but thats because they benefit from both the increased speed and data backup which cannot be sacrificed as well as using a dedicated raid controller which greatly reduces there risk of data corruption

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

well there you go, thats EXACTLY why your drives are failing, your using your hard drives in server applications AND USING "NORMAL HOME USER COOLING" methods...

you need at LEAST a dedicated fan on your hard drives if they are being used at such high load, that SHOULD have been common sense, there is a REASON server rooms are heavily climate controlled (well thats not really why but they get away with it that way)


2 TB is a lot for a normal person yes (and by normal i meen someone who bought their PC from dell or something) i run 1.5 TB i know a ton of people who run more on their normal home desktop, i also personally have a dedicated 100CFM cooling per 2 HDDs

but the point was 2 tb doesnt cost a "good chunk of change" now a days, you can get that much for about 400$ which in a PC that needs 2 tb that should be a fart in the wind in terms of cost comparison


back to the main point though, if your drives are always under high load COOL THEM PROPERLY, if i were you i would even have a supplemental heatsink on them

furthermore, if your often transferring data between hard drives, how many of these "failures" was hardware and how many file table corruption? what your doing is highly susceptible to both, ESPECIALLY since your apparently running RAID, raid has a higher risk for corruption and your doubling your usage for the same amount of data (what type of array are you actually running)

your basically doing 3 things that kill drives

1. run them at high load w/o proper cooling;
2. erasing and rewriting data on a large scale often
3. running a raid array which is already more susceptible to corruption and then using it in a very high load (which multiplies your risk)


and yes many servers run raid, but thats because they benefit from both the increased speed and data backup which cannot be sacrificed as well as using a dedicated raid controller which greatly reduces there risk of data corruption

At least you're a bit more pleasant in this post...
Okay so I didn't spill ALL of my details...
I have a main PC and a server (and 3 laptops and one other PC for my son).
BOTH my server and PC have large cooling fans inside but I'm not using water cooled mech. in any of them.
I also run raid 5 only in my external back up drive system to back up my server which is just my entertainment server for my Tivo and Sonos system
In my PC I just use a larger cap. drive and use a backup software program and make daily incremental backups

Chunk of change for me obviously is much different than you of course. I just meant for hard drive space, I know that I've spent quite a bit. I haven't had the need to buy over 250 GB drives at one time and I've just accumulated them over the years. The ones in my external NAS are large drives and not the ones that have failed (yet) and are SATA's

I know that your #2 option is the culprit but like I said.. it was a rant and most people are not your true PC enthusiast like you are.
I myself always build a new (or somewhat new) PC at least once every other year but I don't have a need for large gargantuan drives in my desktop (highest I have is 200 GB).

Either way, thanks for spending the time to read my rant and provide help...
you scare because you care... got it

[txusa03]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

hey I like this idea but no ethernet support yet...
I'll keep my eye on this one

Yes, for that price, it come up a little short on capabilities. Maybe the next version will give you more flexibilities. It is a good products but short on a few things right now.

[Neil]

I've built my last 3 computers and have had 2 before those. My first Hard Drive failed 2 months ago and it was a mad scramble to recover the data before it went totally. Started with some bad sectors and files not being found and then it just went totally and even locked up the rest of the computer. Luckily it was a second drive and not the main one. I do backup on a external drive but now with only two drives I need another. I guess it was time for a new one anyways, it was a 7200rpm WD1200JB EIDE.

My wish is for drives to eventually lose their moving parts, like a fast version of a thumbdrive. This will limit the problems and make them more reliable.

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by Neil

I've built my last 3 computers and have had 2 before those. My first Hard Drive failed 2 months ago and it was a mad scramble to recover the data before it went totally. Started with some bad sectors and files not being found and then it just went totally and even locked up the rest of the computer. Luckily it was a second drive and not the main one. I do backup on a external drive but now with only two drives I need another. I guess it was time for a new one anyways, it was a 7200rpm WD1200JB EIDE.

My wish is for drives to eventually lose their moving parts, like a fast version of a thumbdrive. This will limit the problems and make them more reliable.

Give it a few years... holographic HD's are on the horizon but I'd say 5-7 years before they go affordable mainstream

[tek818]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

just result in a higher failure rate, even for a redundant one like raid 5

Is that why 99.9% of enterprise class storage arrays are RAID-5 and now RAID-6 with an additional hot spare? It's really not a complicated setup at all; even for a novice, yet the most effective by far. I've been an IT Consultant for ~10 years and cannot stress enough the need for redundant arrays when it comes to business critical data. Frequent backups just don't cut it.

Personally, at home; I have a home theatre pc with 2 x 150GB WD Raptor 10k in RAID-0 for OS and installed apps, and 4 x 500GB in RAID-5 for media archives. Highly recommend this type of setup...

speaking of external hard drives..... mine fell on the floor (carpet) a couple of months ago and ever since then, when i turn it on, it makes a weird digital noise and is no longer being read by my computer, so i just turned it off. lately, i tried turning it back on to see if i had any luck but now it wont even start.

how do hard drives work? is there a small memory chip in there or anything somehow? i lost all my stuff and only a quarter of it was backed up

oh well.... lesson learned.

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by AB Tek 818

Is that why 99.9% of enterprise class storage arrays are RAID-5 and now RAID-6 with an additional hot spare? It's really not a complicated setup at all; even for a novice, yet the most effective by far. I've been an IT Consultant for ~10 years and cannot stress enough the need for redundant arrays when it comes to business critical data. Frequent backups just don't cut it.

Personally, at home; I have a home theatre pc with 2 x 150GB WD Raptor 10k in RAID-0 for OS and installed apps, and 4 x 500GB in RAID-5 for media archives. Highly recommend this type of setup...

umm first off, companies use DEDICATED HARDWARE raid controllers, not the crappy software raid controllers 99% of home users use that introduce a ton of FAT corruption risk

and the reason they use it is because they absolutely cannot risk losing their data, and they absolutely cannot live without the small gains in performance it provides (which is MUCH MUCH higher in server applications that your system drive is getting LMFAO )



the fact that you use raid 0 on your home is laughable, you most likely run your motherboards RAID controllers with that setup and have introduced much more than double your chance of failure rate, all for a 2% increase in performance at most

good job on that

sure your raid 5 will save you if a drive fails, but your going to get more failures then if you just had the 4 hdds independent, thats a FACT


if your really an IT consultant you should have known all this already, its all well documented facts

[toofasttooslow]

Originally Posted by that guy nico

speaking of external hard drives..... mine fell on the floor (carpet) a couple of months ago and ever since then, when i turn it on, it makes a weird digital noise and is no longer being read by my computer, so i just turned it off. lately, i tried turning it back on to see if i had any luck but now it wont even start.

how do hard drives work? is there a small memory chip in there or anything somehow? i lost all my stuff and only a quarter of it was backed up

oh well.... lesson learned.

Try putting it in the freezer overnight. Sometimes the head crashes and the extra cooling you give it in the freezer will contract the metallic parts enough so the head is not riding directly on the platter.

[toofasttooslow]

Originally Posted by AB Tek 818

Is that why 99.9% of enterprise class storage arrays are RAID-5 and now RAID-6 with an additional hot spare? It's really not a complicated setup at all; even for a novice, yet the most effective by far. I've been an IT Consultant for ~10 years and cannot stress enough the need for redundant arrays when it comes to business critical data. Frequent backups just don't cut it.

Personally, at home; I have a home theatre pc with 2 x 150GB WD Raptor 10k in RAID-0 for OS and installed apps, and 4 x 500GB in RAID-5 for media archives. Highly recommend this type of setup...

Meh, I wouldn't go so far as to say that 99% of arrays use RAID 5. Mayabe some sort of variant of 5 but not 5 by itself. There are a whole lot of other types of fault tolerance than just RAID 5 that are used in production. Another very common one is RAID 50 -which we use in nearly all of our EMC frames.

Originally Posted by gum5h03

Try putting it in the freezer overnight. Sometimes the head crashes and the extra cooling you give it in the freezer will contract the metallic parts enough so the head is not riding directly on the platter.

would this really work or are you pulling my leg?

[toofasttooslow]

Originally Posted by that guy nico

would this really work or are you pulling my leg?

It really will work depending on what the failure is and how bad it is. We use it sometimes to recover files so that we can image the drive and perform a forensic investigation. Just make sure to put the HD in a sealed baggie with as little air as possible in it. The condensation will form ice crystals and if there are too many it will ruin the drive.