[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by Ludey

Just got back. I did end up buying the 50 insurance just in case and for piece of mind.

The autocross "track" setup was much bigger than I thought it would be. First time doing this for me and is the fastest car I've ever driven. Holy crap! A switch has been flipped... must... race... more. That was insanely FUN! I could totally see doing Autocross in the M. I actually asked the guys there if I could bring my M around the course for a fee. They turned me down after some collaboration with the guys who own the thing . But he did refer me to one of the instructors who runs the local autocross group. I'll be checking that out.

But oh man, the M felt slow as balls on the drive home lol

Which is why I never test drive faster cars that I'm not willing or able to buy. I can't deal with the disappointment

I am, however, more than willing to drive slower cars here and there. It makes my 335i feel like a rocket afterwards.

[matt]

Originally Posted by M3 Pilot

Not how soon but how much throttle input.

Then made worst by backing off the throttle and start chasing the steering wheel.

So when the car comes you just lift a tad or keep the same gas pedal position?

[justanotherdude]

Originally Posted by BimmerRookie

50-150 for a track experience? I think it would be worth it for a "just in-case" kinda thing. My philosophy in life is there there are so many things in this world that you can't control, however, everything that you can control, do it.

Agreed.

[jeff@autocouture]

buy the insurance

[FRFNUGN]

Originally Posted by Ludey

My wife and son got me a "driving experience" thing where you get to drive a ferrari or Lambo around a track. They offer the track insurance and it's pretty pricey, 50-150. Should I buy it?

So which Ferrari and/or Lambo did you drive? I did one at Blackhawk Farms in Illinois (a track, not AutoX) in an F430 and Gallardo. Honestly, they felt a little faster, just due to the power/torque differences, but the overall feel of the cars made me realize how awesome the M3 is compared to "supercars". Once I started the laps in each car, I really forgot what I was driving, and the experience was no more satisfying than the M since all 3 handled so well and felt so nice. I wasn't at all bummed to be back in the M for the drive home, only that I didn't get to take it out on track as well!

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by matt

So when the car comes you just lift a tad or keep the same gas pedal position?

Couldn't see the video because it's been taken down, but the answer to "what do I do when I encounter mid-corner oversteer" varies based on what induced the oversteer. Based on the comments here, it sounds like overzealous throttle, which is throttle-induced oversteer.

I'm writing this bit up for fun only. I'm no driving instructor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night Obviously you should go seek serious instruction and get lots of seat time if you really want to know how to respond to oversteer.

To counter throttle-induced oversteer, you need to deftly manage both the throttle, and the steering.

Throttle: back-off the throttle, but do not lift entirely. Lifting entirely shifts the cars weight forward, and moves the CG toward the center of rotation (which moves forward in an oversteer condition [1]). As the CG moves toward the center of rotation, this lowers the polar moment of inertia, and actually accelerates the spin. This is why you don't lift entirely. If you do, it's all over.

You want to let off the throttle just enough control the slide, but not so much that you toss the CG forward. Keep in mind that once the tires lose traction, the amount of friction they generate drops dramatically, so you have to let off the throttle quite a bit.

The trick is to be in control of the moment the tires regain grip, because -- as you're about to read -- you have to be ready to react with steering. When the tires regain grip, all the steering action you've taken to counter the oversteer will send you flying off the track if you're not prepared. You actually need to steer ahead (in a time sense) of the throttle input required to regain grip.

Steering: If you catch the oversteer early enough, you can flick the wheel opposite to the direction of the turn to recover. If you're already in to a full side, momentarily release the wheel. Yes, you read that correctly. Release the wheel and let it slide through your hands. The geometry of a cars suspension causes the front wheels to track in the direction of travel, which is, coincidentally, the exact direction you need to start from. You can't turn the steering wheel as fast as the wheels will correct themselves.

You only release for a moment. You'll feel the wheel slow down as the steering angle approaches the direction of travel, and then it's time to start actively steering the car again. From here, it's down to feel. The steering angle should be close to neutral now. You want to keep the car on the track, but you're going to have to allow it to go wide. As long as the rear wheels are spinning, you're only guiding the front of the car with the steering wheel (you're steering the back with the throttle ). The trick is to not let the rear end pass you up. Steer the car so that the front end tracks wide as you work the throttle back to manageable rear grip.

The skid will scrub speed rather quickly, so unless you've really boned it up, you can recover. Steer the car in a way that rotates it more slowly, and be alert! When the rear hooks up, the car is going to shoot off in the opposite direction that you're rotating right now. Remember, you're steering in the opposite direction of the turn you just boned up.

As you reign in the throttle, you should feel and hear the rear begin to gain grip. You need to get the steering back on-center slightly before the rear grabs. You'll know you've done it right if the car simply settles back in. If the car jerks hard on to the line, or snaps in to oversteer in the other direction, your throttle recovery happened before your steering recovery. In the smoothest recoveries, the rear tires are still spinning when you come back to traveling in a straight line. Feeling the difference between steering first recovery and throttle first recovery is paramount to improving your oversteer recovery.

At this point, you're probably not on an optimal line, so you'll need to get the car back in shape. Steer on to your desired line and get back on the gas. The clock hasn't stopped counting!

1: The center of rotation in a front-steer car (as opposed to something like a forklift) is near the rear axle. If you lose rear grip (oversteer), the car will rotate around the front axle. IMO, this shift in center of rotation is the most disorientating aspect of oversteer. It's like you're suddenly driving a forklift.

[Ludey]

Originally Posted by FRFNUGN

So which Ferrari and/or Lambo did you drive? I did one at Blackhawk Farms in Illinois (a track, not AutoX) in an F430 and Gallardo. Honestly, they felt a little faster, just due to the power/torque differences, but the overall feel of the cars made me realize how awesome the M3 is compared to "supercars". Once I started the laps in each car, I really forgot what I was driving, and the experience was no more satisfying than the M since all 3 handled so well and felt so nice. I wasn't at all bummed to be back in the M for the drive home, only that I didn't get to take it out on track as well!

I drove the Ferrari f430. And I agree with what you are saying for the most part, IE I don't see the M3 as being worlds apart by any means. But going from that Ferrari, directly into the seat of the M, yes, I noticed a difference... particularly in the acceleration department. As far as handling, the Ferrari had a "tighter" feel to it as well.

[bradleyland]

I really wish BMW made a less compromised version of their M-cars. Don't get me wrong, I realize that the current formula strikes an incredible balance, but when you get some seat time in a Porsche or Ferrari, then you go back to a car like the M3, you realize that there's still something left on the table, provided you're willing to give up that balance that M-cars strike.

[954Stealth]

Do you have the $250-300K sitting in your bank to pay for a new vehicle if you total this one? No? Then get the insurance.

[Canuckles]

Had to find the video out of curiosity...

http://youtu.be/NDUqQIPgfTk

Suprised they even let them in with that spray tan probably staining the leather.

[Ludey]

Originally Posted by Canuckles

Had to find the video out of curiosity...

Suprised they even let them in with that spray tan probably staining the leather.

It's certainly a good " teachable moment " if nothing else. I watched this a bunch of times to try to zero in on exactly what went wrong. I do feel like he was way too heavy on the throttle... you're supposed to ease into it when exiting. And of course, you shouldn't be getting into it this hard in a residential area, but I think that goes without saying. Then, when it starts to get loose, he lifts, which also contributed. But realize too that the margin of error is so small here - it's a really narrow street. Had this been on a track, most likely it's just a spin out that you would just reverse and continue on, no harm done.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Ludey

It's certainly a good " teachable moment " if nothing else. I watched this a bunch of times to try to zero in on exactly what went wrong. I do feel like he was way too heavy on the throttle... you're supposed to ease into it when exiting. And of course, you shouldn't be getting into it this hard in a residential area, but I think that goes without saying. Then, when it starts to get loose, he lifts, which also contributed. But realize too that the margin of error is so small here - it's a really narrow street. Had this been on a track, most likely it's just a spin out that you would just reverse and continue on, no harm done.

Exactly. Even "average drivers" (as in, not the people who excel to a professional level) who drive like this regularly spin occasionally. An in experienced driver behind the wheel of a car that is far more powerful than their accustomed to can get out of shape quickly. Even if he had performed a proper recovery, he would have run wide out of the corner and probably scraped the right hand side. Once he started to oversteer, it was game over in this circumstance.

[m4pewpew]

I've done multiple driving experiences and I would like to share my opinion.

If I'm not mistaken, insurance is mandatory anyway, but you have coverage options. Honestly, if it's a follow-and-lead type of experience, more coverage is a bit unnecessary because you never go fast enough. This is not a race, it's driving a nice car at a safe environment. You are going to have an instructor with you during those 3 to 5 laps, and he'll probably recommend you to leave the car in automatic mode, all the nanny controls on, there's a pace car, you're only allowed to overtake if your instructor says ok, etc. If you're worried, listen to your instructor, then you'll be fine. It's all pretty safe. If you don't think you have complete control of your hands and feet, bad at following instructions, then yes, more investment in insurance is recommended. Of if you just wanna be super safe and buy the insurance anyway, it's perfectly understandable since you're operating a $100k-$200k+ machine.

I would also recommend doing your driving experience with a reputable group. If your local tracks don't have their own driving experience events, then pay attention to these guys, I think they're pretty good:
http://thextremexperience.com/