[RABAUKE]

Story in Bloomberg, it seems not even auto employees embrace EV's

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...t-to-electrics

[Germanauto]

It's good they take employee feedback.

With that being said, BMW just seems like a lost and "reactionary" company now. Gone are the days when they were setting the trend and everybody wanted to be them. That is guaranteed to happen when a company expands too quickly and becomes bigger than it should.

Tesla is that brand now. Mercedes and Porsche recognize that and are not too far behind Tesla. BMW did well with the i8, but the i3 and all their other plug-in hybrids and what not are a joke.

[pz619]

In addition to the M235i we also have an i3. The car doesn't even begin to compete with Tesla or the Bolt (I realize this car is newer). The only thing that makes it competitive is the $170/month lease payment with $0 down.

It has the makings of a decent car, but the range is the biggest problem. The other complaint is why can't they just make a normal looking car. Not everything electric needs to look like it was dropped in from the future. The i3 needs a real update... and fast.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

It's good they take employee feedback.

With that being said, BMW just seems like a lost and "reactionary" company now. Gone are the days when they were setting the trend and everybody wanted to be them. That is guaranteed to happen when a company expands too quickly and becomes bigger than it should.

Tesla is that brand now. Mercedes and Porsche recognize that and are not too far behind Tesla. BMW did well with the i8, but the i3 and all their other plug-in hybrids and what not are a joke.

Remember there is a European perspective to why BMW have gone the way they have. Diesel has been a major focus of R&D, still hard to compete with over here. BMW embraced diesel at the right time and have captured a big market due to the added Efficient Dynamics strategy. (Audi and Mercedes had to do much the same).

Will take a while for car's like the Tesla to get a hold over here, costs and infrastructure not there yet. There is valid reason why the plug-in hybrid (330e etc.), is filling the gap to full EV. Still limited in use, as charging is impossible for many folks, no home charging possible, so EV is rejected by many at present, as not yet a practical solution.

I sense BMW kept options open, like Hydrogen, (may have delayed a more positive move to EV), as many over here were hoping the fuel cell would lead the next generation of motive power.

[Lancelot]

Originally Posted by pz619

It has the makings of a decent car, but the range is the biggest problem. The other complaint is why can't they just make a normal looking car. Not everything electric needs to look like it was dropped in from the future. The i3 needs a real update... and fast.

Yes indeed range is the problem; looks is a matter of taste but I really like it, inside and outside, and it's a pleasure to drive.
I didn't get one in the end because of cost not justified. And keeping the money for an M3 or M5

[AKRAPOVICOWNS]

Mercedes didn't overtake BMW because of EVs..what EV do they have anyway? They stepped up their design and AMG has become a very respected performance brand, maybe even more than M is now.

As someone said, BMW became a reactionary brand, playing it safe for far too long. Merc on the other hand took more risks and played revolutionary with their designs in this generation, and it worked for them. This is what BMW used to be. Because lets face it, mercs drive pretty much the same as before, and their engines apart from AMGs still suck compared to BMW.

As EVs are concerned, yes BMW is "ahead" in terms of technology than merc, but again the design was a fail. Tesla on the other hand makes decent EVs with decent looks. The problem with charging stations affect everyone, thus you cant blame it for BMWs downfall.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS

Mercedes didn't overtake BMW because of EVs..what EV do they have anyway? They stepped up their design and AMG has become a very respected performance brand, maybe even more than M is now.

As someone said, BMW became a reactionary brand, playing it safe for far too long. Merc on the other hand took more risks and played revolutionary with their designs in this generation, and it worked for them. This is what BMW used to be. Because lets face it, mercs drive pretty much the same as before, and their engines apart from AMGs still suck compared to BMW.

As EVs are concerned, yes BMW is "ahead" in terms of technology than merc, but again the design was a fail. Tesla on the other hand makes decent EVs with decent looks. The problem with charging stations affect everyone, thus you cant blame it for BMWs downfall.

Merc emerged from its crappy Chrysler days with a vengeance. All their redesigns have been wonderfully executed. Once the grappy GLE and GLS are replaced their overhaul will be pretty much complete.

Merc's design language changes quite a bit with every generation, especially the interiors. Sit in any BMW and you've sat in them all. My E90 doesn't feel much different from the F30 from inside, and the F30 drives like a Toyota in comparison, so why the hell would I replace it?

[Efthreeoh]

Not even a decade ago BMW was still paying fines to the US EPA for missing cafe fuel efficiency targets and selling 500 HP X-series SUVs, while GM, Toyota and Honda were developing and marketing hybrids. BMW is so far behind the curve of EV development, even Hyundai has marketed a few pretty decent hybrids.

The i3 IMO was an engineering exercise rather than a full fledged new car line. The REX version is a joke compared to the Volt (and they are both of the same generation). The GM Bolt is leagues ahead of the i3 BEV and they are only 3 years separated in model years if that. Scale up the i3 to a 60kWh battery like the Bolt has and it would be just 200 pounds lighter yet 10 cubic feet smaller in passenger compartment size and would get less range than a Bolt.

The i8 stands on its own if looked at with the hybrid performance cars from the exotics though it is out performed, but it is a lower-priced vehicle.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

I don't see nearly enough sales to think EV inevitably is going to happen anytime soon.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

It's good they take employee feedback.

With that being said, BMW just seems like a lost and "reactionary" company now. Gone are the days when they were setting the trend and everybody wanted to be them. That is guaranteed to happen when a company expands too quickly and becomes bigger than it should.

Tesla is that brand now. Mercedes and Porsche recognize that and are not too far behind Tesla. BMW did well with the i8, but the i3 and all their other plug-in hybrids and what not are a joke.

This is spot on. BMW should have kept the formula it had for decades, which was build really great sport sedans. BMW has diluted it model offerings so much that they have become mainstream in looks and driving dynamics. Couple that with the cost of ownership (leasing aside), and BMW is not offering much these days. And for the car enthusiast that doesn't want to own M, BMW really has nothing that stands out to justify the cost of ownership.

[F32Fleet]

Perhaps BMW employees know the EV train is nothing more than the result of another environmental directive coming out of Brussels and not based upon true demand.

The German government has been throwing money at manufacturers in the form of EV development subsidies.

[JorgenM]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I don't see nearly enough sales to think EV inevitably is going to happen anytime soon.

Look to Norway
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/01/why-e...es-norway.html

BMW i3 is one of the best selling cars here. 50% of new cars are EVs (half of it hybrids).

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by JorgenM

Look to Norway
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/01/why-e...es-norway.html

BMW i3 is one of the best selling cars here. 50% of new cars are EVs (half of it hybrids).

I was thinking of US sales but I'm happy to expand my comment to overall worldwide (private) sales. In regards to Norway... NYC alone exceeds Norway's total population by over 3 million people.

[JorgenM]

I know, but that's not the point.
Norway is an example of what other countries should expect in 5-10 years.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by JorgenM

I know, but that's not the point.
Norway is an example of what other countries should expect in 5-10 years.

That's what they told me about the metric system; and that was the 70s!

[Mr Carrots]

The i3s ridiculous looks can't be helping it's sales outside of silicon valley hipster tech bros.

An EV 1 series hatchback or "swoopy coupe" for murican tastes would seem to be a much better idea for this segment