Wow~ Read this.

BellasBmw · 03-30-2006, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docbolo

Bella I think you have some pent up anger towards me. Did I offend you? Maybe I shouldn't complement you so much. The dude is being totally unreasonable and I think you share the same pro-american feelings as me, so why the anti-bolo attitude?

Because my pro-american feelings still respect others and what they have to say. Its not against you personally, its against the belief system you have .. that america is the greatest and everyone else should aspire to be like us. That is narrow minded and i find that plain ignorant. We may be the superpower, for now , but give atleast 20 yrs and china will have surpassed us. And this is coming straight from my phd poli sci teacher, its not my "fabricated opinion". I do not like when someone has something to say and its immediately shot down, the basis of a discussion forum is to discuss, not to insult or "demolish" someone's opinions. I cant blame the guy for thinking americans are brainwashed, cause most of them are. Our media is probably the #1 culprit, and its good to get an outsider's opinion.

For example- When i was in my last relationship, i couldnt see the faults and problems that we were having because i was blind to it. I saw what i wanted to see. Yet, when my friends/family/peers viewed my relationship, it was an outsider's opinion, wasnt biased, and they saw every flaw.(does this make any sense?..) Its like the situation we have here.. I read the BBC for my news, because its an outsider's viewpoint on whats happening in america.

docbolo · 03-30-2006, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

Because my pro-american feelings still respect others and what they have to say. Its not against you personally, its against the belief system you have .. that america is the greatest and everyone else should aspire to be like us. That is narrow minded and i find that plain ignorant. We may be the superpower, for now , but give atleast 20 yrs and china will have surpassed us. And this is coming straight from my phd poli sci teacher, its not my "fabricated opinion". I do not like when someone has something to say and its immediately shot down, the basis of a discussion forum is to discuss, not to insult or "demolish" someone's opinions. I cant blame the guy for thinking americans are brainwashed, cause most of them are. Our media is probably the #1 culprit, and its good to get an outsider's opinion.

For example- When i was in my last relationship, i couldnt see the faults and problems that we were having because i was blind to it. I saw what i wanted to see. Yet, when my friends/family/peers viewed my relationship, it was an outsider's opinion, wasnt biased, and they saw every flaw.(does this make any sense?..) Its like the situation we have here.. I read the BBC for my news, because its an outsider's viewpoint on whats happening in america.

So when you read his initial post you think he had good points? I (and JB 330ci) were responding to false statements used to support the proposition that americans are stupid/backward/morally corrupt. These were not opinions that we were "demolishing". If he had real points I would respect them. Certainly you are a reasonable person. Can't you understand my viewpoint that using false statements to support an argument is BAD? Are you reading JB 330ci's posts? You are a very bright lady so I am sure you did.

What is the belief system you think is so wrong? That america is greatest? What country in the world has a better system? China!? It will be far more than 20 years for them to catch up (atleast in Science, which I am a professor in). Have you been there? I have. It is backwards and repressive. A hell hole compared to here. There is a reason our families came here from Sicily (which is another currupt dump compared to here, I have been there. I love it but only to visit!).

Your points are well taken and I respect them.

I just think you are fighting the wrong battle. I think deep down you know the US system, although not perfect, is the current best. We are both examples of how the american dream works. :rocks:

e90rocks · 03-30-2006, 11:57 AM

I think that one assumes that all the people in a country are represented by one individual in a forum, that's a big mistake.

I love America, and am glad my parents came here (over 50years ago). The things which I hold dear include personal liberties, a free market economy, and the opportunity for advancement based (for the most part) on performance. It is true that prosperity and our geographical positioning has bred spoiledness, entitlement and complacency in many, but this is not all that is our country.

The USA and American citizens have made major contributions to so many things in the world that much is taken for granted. Just look down at your computer. Is it running windows with microsoft internet explorer? Maybe it's a MAC. The BMW car we love dearly...yes it's a German product. We have Henry Ford to thank for mass produced cars in the first place, and since xit2050 brought up the Marshall plan, how do you think it was economically possible for BMW to emerge out from under the rubble to begin with?

Obviously the Greeks, not the Americans invented democracy, but we certainly are certainly its manifestation. The USA didn't invent the free market economy, but with the exception of some protectionists around here, we have stood up for it when half the world wanted socialism (and look at where they are now).

Our not being born on this soil has been criticized...We are mostly not native to our soil, but coming to this country (for those who were not slaves, of course) to seek a better life and build a nation is a common heritage shared by all of us. There is a reason why the greatest minds wish to emigrate to the US.

We certainly have a great deal of responsibility, which has come from prosperity and power. That prosperity and power didn't come from thin air.

JB 330ci · 03-30-2006, 01:58 PM

Alright seems like things are returning back to normal in this thread now for a change.

E90rocks makes some very good points about the US. I tend to agree with you.

I noticed our fellow BMW fanatic from Belgium recanted his statement...which is good. Fact of the matter is usually no one likes the top dog. Currently it is the US and we are viewed under a microscope for everything the US engages in. No matter what the United States does, someone will be critical of it.

I don't think any other country has demonstrated the restraint nor hold to the values of what the United States stands for. It serves as a beacon for freedom and democracy. It (US) has served in this capacity since the beginning of the 20th century.

If the Soviet Union or China were in the same position as the United States, the world would be completely different and I'd wager a bet it would be worse off with those countries in charge.

Despite what our European friend said it seems most countries are adopting a US style or form of government i.e. one with branches of government, separation of powers, constitution, representative form of government, and a balanced capitalist/socialist economy. The US may not be the first country to invent the idea however the US presents the world on how such a diverse country (political, economic, social, ethnic) can succeed in the world today.

xit2050 · 03-31-2006, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docbolo

(atleast in Science, which I am a professor in).

You are a fine example of your educational system

NOT

N1 · 03-31-2006, 03:15 AM

In Europe we know this kind of talk its socialist / comunist after the fall of the Berlin wall. Now they are against US positions, they dont like bush administration, they only see one way, against capitalism and US. The socialist MILOSEVIC, here in the backyard killing in the name of socialism and nothing, they even talk about that, but pinochet in chile was their target, now bush. We cannot have 100 % of reason, pure reason but this kind of theory its national socialist with the exaltation of their values as capitalism invaded their little lives, made them work hard. So they are against US and they speak like that because a virus has been implanted in their brains, with a brain wash in public schools to the new world, their world, socialist and happy forever with a new royalty this time the socialists and comunists.
To this people i only say why are you buying a BMW you should buy a TRABANT, a LADA the great products of your decadent empire of socialism, instead you buy a product of capitalism, shame on you, you should be driving a socialist car lolol.

xit2050 · 03-31-2006, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1

In Europe we know this kind of talk its socialist / comunist after the fall of the Berlin wall. Now they are against US positions, they dont like bush administration, they only see one way, against capitalism and US. The socialist MILOSEVIC, here in the backyard killing in the name of socialism and nothing, they even talk about that, but pinochet in chile was their target, now bush. We cannot have 100 % of reason, pure reason but this kind of theory its national socialist with the exaltation of their values as capitalism invaded their little lives, made them work hard. So they are against US and they speak like that because a virus has been implanted in their brains, with a brain wash in public schools to the new world, their world, socialist and happy forever with a new royalty this time the socialists and comunists.
To this people i only say why are you buying a BMW you should buy a TRABANT, a LADA the great products of your decadent empire of socialism, instead you buy a product of capitalism, shame on you, you should be driving a socialist car lolol.

Hey man, I'm not a socialist. I am completely a-political. In my point of view, all politicians are corrupt, crazy and retarded.
And stop saying 'they'. I am only speaking for myself.

BTW: you are a beautiful example of American indoctrination.

N1 · 03-31-2006, 07:16 AM

You are a fine example of your educational system. Better long live capitalism against anarchy and I DRIVE BMW BECAUSE IT IS A CAPITALIST CAR lolol

xit2050 · 03-31-2006, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1

You are a fine example of your educational system. Better long live capitalism against anarchy and I DRIVE BMW BECAUSE IT IS A CAPITALIST CAR lolol

Glad to see your English is improving

N1 · 03-31-2006, 04:10 PM

Be glad and enjoy the ride. Americans are normal people just like yourself and they are in the right side of the civilization war. If you cant understand that the brainwash you suffered has caused a lot of damages. Nobody is perfect and free enterprise has made the world better so you can write in the net like that because great people built it. Your individualism is anarchy and capitalism needs your kind of reaction to become better and better, you can understand that ? my english is improving a lot ...

e90rocks · 03-31-2006, 11:57 PM

N1's English is good enough to make some cogent points. If he's from Philadelphia, then I suppose one could make fun of his English. Otherwise give him a break. I couldn't say sh*t in Portuguese.

N1 · 04-01-2006, 02:11 AM

yw

03-30-2006, 11:57 AM	#91
e90rocks Myrmidon 19 Rep 236 Posts Drives: Entwicklung 90 - 325 Xi Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 325 xi [0.00]	USA I think that one assumes that all the people in a country are represented by one individual in a forum, that's a big mistake. I love America, and am glad my parents came here (over 50years ago). The things which I hold dear include personal liberties, a free market economy, and the opportunity for advancement based (for the most part) on performance. It is true that prosperity and our geographical positioning has bred spoiledness, entitlement and complacency in many, but this is not all that is our country. The USA and American citizens have made major contributions to so many things in the world that much is taken for granted. Just look down at your computer. Is it running windows with microsoft internet explorer? Maybe it's a MAC. The BMW car we love dearly...yes it's a German product. We have Henry Ford to thank for mass produced cars in the first place, and since xit2050 brought up the Marshall plan, how do you think it was economically possible for BMW to emerge out from under the rubble to begin with? Obviously the Greeks, not the Americans invented democracy, but we certainly are certainly its manifestation. The USA didn't invent the free market economy, but with the exception of some protectionists around here, we have stood up for it when half the world wanted socialism (and look at where they are now). Our not being born on this soil has been criticized...We are mostly not native to our soil, but coming to this country (for those who were not slaves, of course) to seek a better life and build a nation is a common heritage shared by all of us. There is a reason why the greatest minds wish to emigrate to the US. We certainly have a great deal of responsibility, which has come from prosperity and power. That prosperity and power didn't come from thin air.
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03-30-2006, 01:58 PM	#92
JB 330ci Resident "Spook" 4 Rep 117 Posts Drives: 03 330ci, 08 335i, 08 A5, Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Baghdad, Iraq/ Columbus, GA iTrader: (0)	Alright seems like things are returning back to normal in this thread now for a change. E90rocks makes some very good points about the US. I tend to agree with you. I noticed our fellow BMW fanatic from Belgium recanted his statement...which is good. Fact of the matter is usually no one likes the top dog. Currently it is the US and we are viewed under a microscope for everything the US engages in. No matter what the United States does, someone will be critical of it. I don't think any other country has demonstrated the restraint nor hold to the values of what the United States stands for. It serves as a beacon for freedom and democracy. It (US) has served in this capacity since the beginning of the 20th century. If the Soviet Union or China were in the same position as the United States, the world would be completely different and I'd wager a bet it would be worse off with those countries in charge. Despite what our European friend said it seems most countries are adopting a US style or form of government i.e. one with branches of government, separation of powers, constitution, representative form of government, and a balanced capitalist/socialist economy. The US may not be the first country to invent the idea however the US presents the world on how such a diverse country (political, economic, social, ethnic) can succeed in the world today.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-31-2006, 03:15 AM	#94
N1 Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 272 Posts Drives: BMW 320d M Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	In Europe we know this kind of talk its socialist / comunist after the fall of the Berlin wall. Now they are against US positions, they dont like bush administration, they only see one way, against capitalism and US. The socialist MILOSEVIC, here in the backyard killing in the name of socialism and nothing, they even talk about that, but pinochet in chile was their target, now bush. We cannot have 100 % of reason, pure reason but this kind of theory its national socialist with the exaltation of their values as capitalism invaded their little lives, made them work hard. So they are against US and they speak like that because a virus has been implanted in their brains, with a brain wash in public schools to the new world, their world, socialist and happy forever with a new royalty this time the socialists and comunists. To this people i only say why are you buying a BMW you should buy a TRABANT, a LADA the great products of your decadent empire of socialism, instead you buy a product of capitalism, shame on you, you should be driving a socialist car lolol.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-31-2006, 07:16 AM	#96
N1 Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 272 Posts Drives: BMW 320d M Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	You are a fine example of your educational system. Better long live capitalism against anarchy and I DRIVE BMW BECAUSE IT IS A CAPITALIST CAR lolol
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-31-2006, 04:10 PM	#98
N1 Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 272 Posts Drives: BMW 320d M Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	Be glad and enjoy the ride. Americans are normal people just like yourself and they are in the right side of the civilization war. If you cant understand that the brainwash you suffered has caused a lot of damages. Nobody is perfect and free enterprise has made the world better so you can write in the net like that because great people built it. Your individualism is anarchy and capitalism needs your kind of reaction to become better and better, you can understand that ? my english is improving a lot ...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-31-2006, 11:57 PM	#99
e90rocks Myrmidon 19 Rep 236 Posts Drives: Entwicklung 90 - 325 Xi Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 325 xi [0.00]	Iberian comment N1's English is good enough to make some cogent points. If he's from Philadelphia, then I suppose one could make fun of his English. Otherwise give him a break. I couldn't say sh*t in Portuguese.
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04-01-2006, 02:11 AM	#100
N1 Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 272 Posts Drives: BMW 320d M Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	yw
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