[V-Eight]

simply, all EU politicians were sure that all EU citizens would have started buying EVs without any problems. But the fact is that an EV cost too much, and a single charge isn't cheap as stated at all. Evs doesn't have the promised range, etc. let me say...Evs aren't "democratics"...and maybe...in such cases....are just a toy for rich boys. For sure, EVs maybe are the future, but it cannot be imposed this way! Result? We don't want them. Applause for those politicians, who shout "green deal" going to their "green meetings/rallies" with their pollutive private jets. As we say here in Italy, "you must do what we tell you to do....but don't don't do what we do...).
The only thing that matter, is that people aren't stupid as they think they are.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by Maxroadrage

Shrinking the industry was the true goal of the Ban. They want to get rid of private transportation.

ding ding ding ding ding!!!!!

[msej449]

It’s easy to conflate the US and European energy landscapes, but they’re different. I’d agree that in the US an ICEV ban wouldn’t make sense for a whole range of reasons.

The expansion of EVs in the UK is happening in an open market, with no government subsidies of either the car or energy companies. As it stands there’s no imposition going on and still each year, diesel and petrol ales increasingly gives way to electric. Purely on the basis of consumer choice.

But if this continues - and the potential minimum size EV market is only 6% saturated so far - then by the time we hit even a moderate market saturation, then most of the EVs we’ll have bought will be Chinese. And our domestic car manufacturing base will be decimated.

Tariffs alone won’t remedy this. We need a domestic European manufacturing base that’s competitive with Chinese EVs and as it stands, they’re not moving fast enough. The target EU date for ‘only EVs’ (which includes hybrids, by the way) is not arbitrary - if they can’t hit it by then, then they’re dead in the water anyway.

In effect, a European car CEO who says the date is “unrealistic” is admitting their own failure. Come that date, if they haven’t reached the point where they can make the EVs the market will want - at a price competitive with the Chinese - then they’re doomed.

None of this is anything to do with global heating, the climate crisis or left-wing ideology. It’s raw economics. It’s the parallel of Detroit in the 70s/80s. And when the likes of VAG and Stellantis do hit the brick wall of Chinese exports, they’ll be the first to come whining back to government for taxpayer handouts. The same governments they criticised for recognising the challenge, and setting the EV target in the first place.

[BlkGS]

Nobody will ever be competitive with Chinese manufacturing. They use slave labor, unpaid prison labor, and dump products below cost to manufacture to drive competition out of business.

You can't hold back the tide of loss leaders without tariffs or flat out banning Chinese imports.

[BigMonkeyWrench]

The chickens have come home to roost. And to add insult to injury, German luxury car sales are tanking in China. Tariffs will only delay the inevitable. The genie can't be put back in the bottle.

[David70]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

China ABSOLUTELY uses slave labor. Both liter enslaved people, and economically enslaved people. You can looked up about the forced labor China uses, it's well documented. More than a couple big companies have gotten caught up by "accidentally" using suppliers that uses slaves.

Thats not even talking about your Foxconns of the world. I worked with a plant in Chengdu, we had some former foxconn employees there. They told me stories of some.lf.their friends who were laborers were forced to pay more for boarding and food than they would make for the first 2 years..they were literally losing money the first year or two, paying their debt to the company off, and only after a few years swere they actually earning any money. This was somehow better than their economic prospects in small rural villages. Most of them would work there for a few years while sending money back to their homes, then eventually just not show back up after new year.

Also, you can't take anything Farley says seriously. He's both running Ford into the ground, and a total talking head, who will tell you they're all in on gas V8s one day, then turn around and tell another group of people about how great EVs are the next, then tell a 3rd group that's EVs and V8s are dumb and turbo hybrids are the future. He says whatever the group he's speaking to wants to hear.

You used to work with former Foxcon employees - they left Foxconn, other Foxconn employees used to work in small rural villages but they left to go to Foxconn because as bad as it was it was better than it was in the rural villages. Your story is of "slave labor" that continued to change jobs. Remember the giant Foxconn strikes? Slave labor doesn't go on strike.

Farley explained why they are ahead and best you can say is you don't believe him.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by David70

You used to work with former Foxcon employees - they left Foxconn, other Foxconn employees used to work in small rural villages but they left to go to Foxconn because as bad as it was it was better than it was in the rural villages. Your story is of "slave labor" that continued to change jobs. Remember the giant Foxconn strikes? Slave labor doesn't go on strike.

Farley explained why they are ahead and best you can say is you don't believe him.

Foxconn has a LOT of employees, not all are slaves for sure. Some are though. And that's unacceptable.

Farley has been a China apologist for years, and again, says whatever people want to hear

[pr0gi]

Well, I guess that makes sense as to why BMW is currently offering their EVs at around a 30-35% discount. With about six or seven cars purchased from them since 2008, I was sure I wasn't their most valuable customer to receive such good prices. A friend of mine got an i7 xdrive 60 the other week with a €50k discount, which was roughly 35%. They are trying very hard to push EV sales.

[David70]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Foxconn has a LOT of employees, not all are slaves for sure. Some are though. And that's unacceptable.

Farley has been a China apologist for years, and again, says whatever people want to hear

He listed how they are ahead and you have no reply. Seems like if he were wrong you could say how. How is the U.S. ahead of the Chinese in EV technology?

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by David70

He listed how they are ahead and you have no reply. Seems like if he were wrong you could say how. How is the U.S. ahead of the Chinese in EV technology?

EV technology is a known thing. While there may be some forward progress in battery tech, electric motors are a very well developed and understood thing. There just isn't that much to an EV.

China's advantages lie in their slave labor and totalitarian government. Buy a product they don't like, they make you disappear. Pretty big advantage having total control of your people.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

EV technology is a known thing. While there may be some forward progress in battery tech, electric motors are a very well developed and understood thing. There just isn't that much to an EV.

China's advantages lie in their slave labor and totalitarian government. Buy a product they don't like, they make you disappear. Pretty big advantage having total control of your people.

That's if you can get any non governmental approved products in mass into the country which is next to nil.

The other advantage of Chinese manufacturers are that they're essentially partnered/subsidized by the CCP. It's no coincidence there's a political officer at every facility. Add to that the totally manipulated currency they have which doesn't follow any free market behaviors.

A while back I was talking to a friend at a very large and well known networking company. You can figure out who that is easily. We were discussing the manufacturing they have in China. He said routinely the Chinese work force they would train up to manufacture their products would some how disappear in regular intervals. Then a new group of workers would show up to be trained. Rinse and repeat. It was known what was going on with these now trained workers. They were being diverted to other factories where their expertise could be used in competing factories or in counterfeiting activities. His company put up with it as the losses still were cheaper than paying higher manufacturing costs elsewhere.