[double_j]

Originally Posted by NYCGP

I know, you're right. Well I have to talk to him later today when he gets off the course. The real problem is that he started out playing his handicap on certain days and adding to it on others. He would shoot like a 98 one day and a 120 something the next.

That's totally normal. Keep in mind that technically you should only shoot to your handicap or better once out of every four rounds.

I'm a 7 hdcp and am still just as likely to finish with a 78 as I am to finish with a 90.

Also, why can't he just not play in those serious club tournaments? It doesn't mean he can never play at the club, it just means he can't play when they have those events.

[Kroy]

Originally Posted by NYCGP

I get it man. I think we all do. We have also all heard that advice given to us by our parents or hippie friends/acquaintances at one time or another. It is extremely generic and does very little to make anyone feel better. Based on that line of thinking, no one should care deeply about anything because there are much bigger happenings than our small insignificant selfish desires.

My dad is hurt. Telling him they all suck and are assholes is true, but goes very little to make him feel any better. I am just gonna work with him this summer to get him into playing shape. Hopefully go back there next year and make them eat their words.

Best decision EVAR. Hope your old man improves his game quickly and is able to make them eat their words. Maybe a goal like this is what he needs to be more driven. Your dad sounds like a hard worker and a winner from what you've described in the past.

[CollinsE90]

I would reschedule man

[Wakka]

Originally Posted by NYCGP

I get it man. I think we all do. We have also all heard that advice given to us by our parents or hippie friends/acquaintances at one time or another. It is extremely generic and does very little to make anyone feel better. Based on that line of thinking, no one should care deeply about anything because there are much bigger happenings than our small insignificant selfish desires.

My dad is hurt. Telling him they all suck and are assholes is true, but goes very little to make him feel any better. I am just gonna work with him this summer to get him into playing shape. Hopefully go back there next year and make them eat their words.

completely off topic but your sig no longer works

[coh4777]

I think at the end of the day, your dad just really needs to lower his handicap. Not only for the purposes of playing in the club tournaments, but also for him to enjoy the game. If he has fun as a 30+ handicapper, think about how much he's gonna love it when he's breaking 100 or even 90!

Not knowing the details your dad's level of play, there are few things to focus on aside from swing mechanics, which is obviously critical in itself. First of all, he needs to understand the importance of the short game. So much of the scorecard at the end of the day depends on how tight someone's game is from 100 yards and in. He should be spending at least 75% of his time on just his wedges and putter. He should be tracking how often he 3-putts, how often he is able to convert up-and-downs and how close he can stick his wedge shots. These are all infinitely more important than his ability to blast 300 yard drives. It's tedious stuff, but if he is really serious about being a good golfer, he will need to do it.

Second, work on course management. So many beginner golfers don't understand that if you hit a bad drive off the tee and end up in the trees, you gotta take your medicine and just punch the ball out to the fairway, instead of trying to be a hero and advance the ball to the green. Or laying up in front of a water hazard or bunker with a shorter iron, instead of trying to muscle a longer iron onto the green. A lot of times, taking one extra stroke on a hole will save an extra 2 or 3 later.

Finally, course etiquette. I don't know how aware you dad is of course etiquette and pace of play, but soooo many beginners don't understand these things. It is possible that this was more frustrating to his fellow members than his actual score. Does your dad remember to stand such that he is never in the peripheral vision of someone hitting their shot (ie stand 90 degrees in front of behind the shooter)? Does he remember to take 2 or 3 clubs off the golf cart when he goes to his ball, so he does not have to make a return trip if he changes his mind on club selection? Does he know never to step in someone's line on the green? Does he know how to properly fix divots and attand a pin? If he is not yet experienced at bunker shots, does he just take a penalty stroke and drop outside the bunker (I know this is not legal, but as long as it is not tournament play, I always recommend this to beginners so they don't slow down the whole group. They can practice bunker shots on their own time.) There are so many aspects of golf etiquette that go beyond just being quiet during someone's swing. The problem with most people who start the game later in life is that they are never really taught these things. But for experienced golfers like your dad's fellow members, it can really aggrivating if someone is not aware of these things. Not saying you dad is like that because I just don't know, but I'm just saying it's possible and if it is, he should really work on it.

Hope this helps and best of luck to your dad.

[NYCGP]

Originally Posted by coh4777

I think at the end of the day, your dad just really needs to lower his handicap. Not only for the purposes of playing in the club tournaments, but also for him to enjoy the game. If he has fun as a 30+ handicapper, think about how much he's gonna love it when he's breaking 100 or even 90!

Not knowing the details your dad's level of play, there are few things to focus on aside from swing mechanics, which is obviously critical in itself. First of all, he needs to understand the importance of the short game. So much of the scorecard at the end of the day depends on how tight someone's game is from 100 yards and in. He should be spending at least 75% of his time on just his wedges and putter. He should be tracking how often he 3-putts, how often he is able to convert up-and-downs and how close he can stick his wedge shots. These are all infinitely more important than his ability to blast 300 yard drives. It's tedious stuff, but if he is really serious about being a good golfer, he will need to do it.

Second, work on course management. So many beginner golfers don't understand that if you hit a bad drive off the tee and end up in the trees, you gotta take your medicine and just punch the ball out to the fairway, instead of trying to be a hero and advance the ball to the green. Or laying up in front of a water hazard or bunker with a shorter iron, instead of trying to muscle a longer iron onto the green. A lot of times, taking one extra stroke on a hole will save an extra 2 or 3 later.

Finally, course etiquette. I don't know how aware you dad is of course etiquette and pace of play, but soooo many beginners don't understand these things. It is possible that this was more frustrating to his fellow members than his actual score. Does your dad remember to stand such that he is never in the peripheral vision of someone hitting their shot (ie stand 90 degrees in front of behind the shooter)? Does he remember to take 2 or 3 clubs off the golf cart when he goes to his ball, so he does not have to make a return trip if he changes his mind on club selection? Does he know never to step in someone's line on the green? Does he know how to properly fix divots and attand a pin? If he is not yet experienced at bunker shots, does he just take a penalty stroke and drop outside the bunker (I know this is not legal, but as long as it is not tournament play, I always recommend this to beginners so they don't slow down the whole group. They can practice bunker shots on their own time.) There are so many aspects of golf etiquette that go beyond just being quiet during someone's swing. The problem with most people who start the game later in life is that they are never really taught these things. But for experienced golfers like your dad's fellow members, it can really aggrivating if someone is not aware of these things. Not saying you dad is like that because I just don't know, but I'm just saying it's possible and if it is, he should really work on it.

Hope this helps and best of luck to your dad.

He is exactly like that. And I have been trying to teach him all of these points of etiquette for the better part of a year. But you know that old saying about dogs and new tricks..

He is focused on much less important aspects of the game. ie. ball striking. It is sometimes very aggravating to play with him. I never, ever, shoot my best rounds with him because it is impossible to have any sort of rhythm when someone takes however long they feel like to play.

I think I touched on it earlier that I saw this coming and I have warned him several times. I was just told that it is not just participating in events, it is playing during peak hours during the week. Which, imho, is unacceptable to ask a full member not to do. Pay all that money to be told when you can and can not play? I don't think so.

I am leaving tomorrow evening and will be at the club on Thursday. I will see what is going on when I get there.

[coh4777]

Originally Posted by NYCGP

It is sometimes very aggravating to play with him. I never, ever, shoot my best rounds with him because it is impossible to have any sort of rhythm when someone takes however long they feel like to play.

I bet this is really the heart of the issue. You're his son and even you get frustrated and cannot play your normal game with him. Think about how much more impatient other members must get. I can kind of sympathize with the club because I refuse to play with friends who don't understand etiquette. Maybe is sounds like an asshole attitude to have, but once you reach a certain competitive level in golf (or anything else for that matter), getting saddled with a bad playing partner can really mess up you enjoyment. The good news is that etiquette awareness and pace of play are easier to fix than a busted swing. You dad should do his part and learn these aspects. At the same time, the club should probably extend a little more patience, since they did make the decision to accept a beginner as a member. Hopefully some sort of compromise or arrangement can be reached.

[Comet]

Originally Posted by coh4777

I bet this is really the heart of the issue. You're his son and even you get frustrated and cannot play your normal game with him. Think about how much more impatient other members must get. I can kind of sympathize with the club because I refuse to play with friends who don't understand etiquette. Maybe is sounds like an asshole attitude to have, but once you reach a certain competitive level in golf (or anything else for that matter), getting saddled with a bad playing partner can really mess up you enjoyment. The good news is that etiquette awareness and pace of play are easier to fix than a busted swing. You dad should do his part and learn these aspects. At the same time, the club should probably extend a little more patience, since they did make the decision to accept a beginner as a member. Hopefully some sort of compromise or arrangement can be reached.

I am going to go ahead and agree with this statement..

I know how damn hell crazy some players can get.. for a game that is supposed to be relaxed, people are really tensed up if they don't go at it at their pace.
Most likely his "friends" are the ones who put the club up to this.. They probably have a lot of pull there I assume?

You could try talking to the Club to get to the bottom of it and working something out together.
Also, "donating" to the club works well.. I don't know how much that sets you back there..
"The Golden Rule.. Whoever has the gold, makes the rule.." -Aladdin

[grieverr]

I'm gonna agree with some people who said your dad's handicap may not really be the reason they're asking him not to participate. That sucks, I hate fake f-ing people!

How bad would it really be to burn that bridge? I mean, do you guys really want to pay to be somewhere where you're not wanted?

Also, in keeping relationship with your father, I would follow along with whatever happens or he decides. Meaning, if he leaves the club, you should too. Make sure you support him, not the sport or the club.

[bolinp78]

Originally Posted by grieverr

I'm gonna agree with some people who said your dad's handicap may not really be the reason they're asking him not to participate. That sucks, I hate fake f-ing people!

How bad would it really be to burn that bridge? I mean, do you guys really want to pay to be somewhere where you're not wanted?

Also, in keeping relationship with your father, I would follow along with whatever happens or he decides. Meaning, if he leaves the club, you should too. Make sure you support him, not the sport or the club.

Most clubs have varying handicap restrictions at events; This is not out of the ordinary. I'm sure this is pretty easy to find out if you want to know. If he doesn't meet the cutoff then he has to follow the rules. If he does then there's obviously something else going on. No use speculating without knowing what the club's rules are.

[grieverr]

bolinp78:
I won't argue that, I believe you are correct. The OP admitted to his dad not having the best etiquette, and I'm assuming that's more of a problem to other club members than his handicap.

I'm not saying they should hate the club. But the OP's father was always guarded, he finally let his guard down, allowed himself to be part of a community, and now they're basically kicking him out. I'm much more concerned for the feelings of his father (and the improving relationship with his son) than the club's rules.

I don't necessarily think the club is doing anything wrong, but if dad wants to continue enjoying the game and improving it, he won't do it at that club where he's being forced to play off-peak, and if the camaraderie he was sharing with fellow members is now gone.

[Agent P]

Originally Posted by coh4777

I bet this is really the heart of the issue. You're his son and even you get frustrated and cannot play your normal game with him. Think about how much more impatient other members must get. I can kind of sympathize with the club because I refuse to play with friends who don't understand etiquette. Maybe is sounds like an asshole attitude to have, but once you reach a certain competitive level in golf (or anything else for that matter), getting saddled with a bad playing partner can really mess up you enjoyment. The good news is that etiquette awareness and pace of play are easier to fix than a busted swing. You dad should do his part and learn these aspects. At the same time, the club should probably extend a little more patience, since they did make the decision to accept a beginner as a member. Hopefully some sort of compromise or arrangement can be reached.

Def agree, and I'd bet this is probably the issue - or at least part of it. It does get frustrating playing w/slow people, or being stuck behind slow people for that matter (maybe it was other members outside your dad's group that complained - guys that get stuck on the every tee box for 15 mins?). It's completely fine if you're bad, but slow is entirely different. Taking 10 practice swings every time (then hit it 50 yds, rinse & repeat on every shot), not keeping an eye on your ball and have no idea where it is/where to look, spending 10 mins to look for your ball, walking off every putt, not being prepared with extra clubs/balls, not knowing the "order" (i.e. who's away) etc. etc. just gets tiring for those in the group. Sometimes it's just not your hole and you pick it up and move on. It's tough watching somebody take a slow 12 whenever the rest of the group finished 5 mins ago. Not saying your dad does all of that, but seems like it could be the issue. Most of the older guys I know at clubs want to get a quick round in daily, not spend 6+ hours there.

Could also be that since he's getting better and taking lessons, he's taking too much time to think about it and work on it while on the course - ton of practice swings, make sure grip/arms/feet are all right, standing over the ball for an extended period of time thinking about what he has to do, etc. That extra 1-2 mins for every shot really adds up over 18 holes. Save that time for the range, lessons, or rounds with an instructor - not your buddies.

It's awsome that your dad likes to play and you get to spend time with him doing it. Keep encouraging him and give him pointers when you guys play.

[bolinp78]

Originally Posted by grieverr

bolinp78:
I won't argue that, I believe you are correct. The OP admitted to his dad not having the best etiquette, and I'm assuming that's more of a problem to other club members than his handicap.

I'm not saying they should hate the club. But the OP's father was always guarded, he finally let his guard down, allowed himself to be part of a community, and now they're basically kicking him out. I'm much more concerned for the feelings of his father (and the improving relationship with his son) than the club's rules.

I don't necessarily think the club is doing anything wrong, but if dad wants to continue enjoying the game and improving it, he won't do it at that club where he's being forced to play off-peak, and if the camaraderie he was sharing with fellow members is now gone.

I'm not sure where you saw that he'd have to play "off-peak", maybe it's in the thread somewhere. From what I read, he is not allowed to play in member events (tournaments). This is completely different than going out with a group and playing, no matter how structured it is. He can still go out any time he wants and play the course, outside of club tournaments. If he's being shunned by a group then he's got other issues, which probably have to do with how he plays.

Golf is a game of handicaps. Even groups playing casually will score based on their handicap. When you're talking about club tournaments, most of the time they'll flight you based on handicap, but there is often a handicap cutoff. They aren't going to let someone that shoots a 150 play. It all depends on what this clubs cutoff is.

[NYCGP]

They requested he play off peak hours... It was what really made him upset.

[grieverr]

bolinp78: this is from post #50

Originally Posted by NYCGP

... I was just told that it is not just participating in events, it is playing during peak hours during the week. Which, imho, is unacceptable to ask a full member not to do. Pay all that money to be told when you can and can not play?

[bolinp78]

Originally Posted by NYCGP

They requested he play off peak hours... It was what really made him upset.

Oh. Well that's going to have lots of people not considering the big picture saying foul, but if he's playing in a manner like many in this thread have described, then I don't blame the club for making the request. There is a reason that these clubs are exclusive and people pay lots of money to join them. Just because someone can afford the membership doesn't mean that they can ignore the etiquette of golf or affect other members by their play. I'm not saying that this is what the father is doing, because I have no idea, I'm just making a statement.

I come from the side that has experience at clubs and knows why people pay the money to join them. Someone that has never had experience with clubs will probably have a different opinion, such as calling the club a bunch of snobs.

[NYCGP]

I was taught by my ex-gf's father. He hammered the rules into my head every time we played. He was extremely patient with me. At the same time, I was willing to learn and I was not resistant. My dad is a bit resistant and often likes to say, "fuck it."

Like I said, I saw this coming a long time ago. I just thought by this point he would have learned what was necessary. Instead, he did whatever the fuck he wanted and never learned. Not that he doesn't want to. He just didn't think it was important.

While I had to worry about embarrassing someone elses family, he only has to care about himself.

[Trijicon]

Originally Posted by boymonkey

Join a different club? Don't play competitively? Or play within his skill group?

+1

Don't play competitively. Tell him to find three good friends to play with all the time and gamble between their foursome. Golf should be about enjoying the game and the company, not ranking or tournaments.

[McMuffin]

Late in the thread...

Sorry to hear man. Is suing an option?