[dawheat]

Originally Posted by Digital.James

Ha. Sorry but sitting in an R8 is indeed like siting in almost any other Audi. It's not special at all. Everything is famliar. And yup, you're right. Im no pro-driver, a novice at best. I can only at best speak to turning around corners at 7/10s and ripping through freeway on ramps. At those momments, it felt like almost any other Audi Ive been in. If I used your logic, why pay 50k for a Audi when you can get a VW Passat that is almost identical mechanicially? I'll say it again, Audis are for metro-yuppies who want interior, and german styling. Road and Track compared a R8 V10 to a 430 Scuderia and said it wasnt even close. Even if they factored price into the equation So again I say it. The R8 is no comparison to a Ferrari. It's better matched against a Porsche 911. You obviously have a hard on for R8s, and thats cool. Its your e-peen.

Wait - at 7/10s in any sort of turn, you couldn't feel the difference between a car that a substantial front weight and FWD bias vs one with a mild rear weight bias and RWD bias? I can not believe that anyone with functioning senses couldn't tell how differently the cars feel.

Maybe if you're going at 2/10s and turning at 10mph they feel similar but give me a break.

Your Audi to VW example makes more sense b/c they share the same architecture - a nicely optioned Passat is going to be a pretty nice car and is going to be far more similar to an A4. But you're basically claiming a Honda Civic Type R and S2000 feel pretty much the same when you drive them at 7/10s (almost exactly matched in performance specs).

[Bunkei]

The car looks nice but not $350K nice. At this price range, an automobile should be a work of art on 4 wheels. This is not. The performance will be hard to fault though ....

[hks786]

Originally Posted by Bunkei

The car looks nice but not $350K nice. At this price range, an automobile should be a work of art on 4 wheels. This is not. The performance will be hard to fault though ....

That's basically what I think. However, I do still really like the design. It's no work of art like an Aston Martin or Alfa Romeo 8C, but it is unique and I do like it.

[adrian1480]

^ but how is it unique? the back is somewhat...but the front? sides? it looks VERY much like a Supra or Celica.

[graider]

Originally Posted by footie

Sorry but you can't compare this Lexus to the Bugatti. The Veyron is a halo car and rightly so, it's an engineering masterpiece. Another thing, I doubt Toyota is selling every LF-A at a lose like what Volkswagen are, and that even after your suggested twice it's RRP, remember every one cost €5 million to make.

On the road few if any other car would stay in touch with the Veyron and the only reason that might not happen is the driver's fear of causing damage to something so expensive.

The only cars that approach it's level of engineering excellence are F1 cars.

i don't think the veyron and f1 have anything in common. carrera gt or enzo have more f1 than veyron.

[footie]

Originally Posted by graider

i don't think the veyron and f1 have anything in common. carrera gt or enzo have more f1 than veyron.

That's not what I meant by my statement, the difficulties that Volkswagen had to overcome during the development of the Veyron were the equivalent to what F1 teams face and they require similar levels of genius engineering to solve them.

I'm not knock the Carrera GT or the Enzo but I doubt either company would have continued with the programme given the level of difficulties the Veyron's development suffered, admittedly money would have came into it.

[AlpWtE92]

Originally Posted by footie

Sorry but you can't compare this Lexus to the Bugatti. The Veyron is a halo car and rightly so, it's an engineering masterpiece. Another thing, I doubt Toyota is selling every LF-A at a lose like what Volkswagen are, and that even after your suggested twice it's RRP, remember every one cost €5 million to make.

On the road few if any other car would stay in touch with the Veyron and the only reason that might not happen is the driver's fear of causing damage to something so expensive.

The only cars that approach it's level of engineering excellence are F1 cars.

I don't think anyone is trying to compare a Veyron to a the LF-A. The Veyron is after all 3-4 times more expensive. However, the concept of a "halo car" applies to both and such cars are not made to be a good "value." Price is irrelevant when you're in the market for one of these kinds of cars - people that have the money and want one will be able to find enough reasons to justify the price (if they even care). I can just as easily say that the LF-A is an engineering masterpiece in its own right - from it's awesome sounding, hand-built, 9000 rpm revving engine derived from Toyota's old V10 F1 engine, to the in-house custom made composite materials that are used to make the body, tub, and chasis. Even the seat belts are innovative as they have airbags built in to help distribute and dampen impact forces. Don't forget that Lexus also spent 10 years developing the car.

Yes, this car is damn expensive and to most of us, it's incomprehensible to pay that much for a car. However, there are things that can justify the price as much as any supercar's price can be justified. People need to stop criticizing it just because it's a Lexus.

[consolidated]

Originally Posted by f=ma

ppl need to start understanding the meaning of a Halo car.

Yes, but Toyota is the largest car company in the world, with the resources to match. Add 10, yes, TEN years of development and a $375,000 sticker and what do you get? A rather dim halo if you ask me. What performance aspect of this car is rule changing? Not much.

It should KILL ALL COMERS given these things, Japanese perfection and nothing less, space alien performance stats.

It should destroy all the ankle biters known as Koenigsegg, Gumpert, McLaren, even Ferrari...but it appears it will only match them and with a marque that carries as much heft in sports car history as balloon boy.

It'll undoubtly perform but that's a hollow compliment given what it could have been. That's what the criticism stems from. Nissan is victor here.

[majin ssj eric]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Yes, but Toyota is the largest car company in the world, with the resources to match. Add 10, yes, TEN years of development and a $375,000 sticker and what do you get? A rather dim halo if you ask me. What performance aspect of this car is rule changing? Not much.

It should KILL ALL COMERS given these things, Japanese perfection and nothing less, space alien performance stats.

It should destroy all the ankle biters known as Koenigsegg, Gumpert, McLaren, even Ferrari...but it appears it will only match them and with a marque that carries as much heft in sports car history as balloon boy.

It'll undoubtly perform but that's a hollow compliment given what it could have been. That's what the criticism stems from. Nissan is victor here.

I think you should wait and see what numbers the car actually produces before writing it off as sub-par....

[consolidated]

Originally Posted by majin ssj eric

I think you should wait and see what numbers the car actually produces before writing it off as sub-par....

Not sub-par, just par.

[Guibo]

I seriously doubt this car is about performance numbers anyway. A ZR1 gives a Pagani Zonda F a run for its money, yet it's obvious one car is certainly more special than the other. Does that make the Zonda F overpriced? From the point of view of strictly performance/money, yes. But from the point of view of someone who could actually afford to buy the Zonda, probably not.

From some of the initial reports, it looks like Lexus has created something very un-Lexuslike.
"In many ways, its closest natural rival is the Ferrari 599GTB, although the Lexus is more visceral and exciting and better balanced and more nimble."
--Car & Driver

"With the IS-F already demonstrating that Lexus knows how to make a car for keen drivers, it should be no surprise that the LFA is a good steer. However, what was a shock - particularly after Lexus claimed that its new supercar is still a luxury car at heart - is just how driver-focused it is. Think 430 Scuderia levels of driver involvement, agility and usability."
--Car Enthusiast

Too often, we consider the price of these cars from the standpoint of someone who has only $375k (or whatever) and not more from which to make a choice. It's possible that there may be plenty of people, perhaps 500 in this world, who could afford this car and a Lamborghini and a Porsche and a Ferrari and a ZR1 and would like to add something not so blatantly obvious (or common) to their stable.
And too often we look at such cars from the point of view of our perceived value: "Car A is better than Car B, therefore Car B is made redundant and is effectively a waste of money." Cars in this category by their nature are seen from another view of perceived value: they don't necessarily have to be better. Sometimes, all they have to be is different enough to separate a select few peope (and 500 is very limited) from the money in their bank accounts. I'm not sure what niche Lexus was after, but it looks like they have hit one not yet tapped: the ultra-limited, front-engined GT with the track focus nearly that of a Scuderia, with impeccable build quality to go with it.
The GT-R is nowhere near as exotically built, nowhere near as limited in number, and out of the box probably won't stand up to the sustained lapping that this car should endure. As a result, it should be priced much, much less than the LFA.

One other aspect of the "halo" car effect is this car's value to the home market. For years, Lexus have taken a back seat to German marques in Japan, with major strides in market share occurring only in the past couple of years. This car could be the final step that establishes Lexus as a legitimate premium marque in its own home country.

[malujerry]

quick update...

$375,000 cost
$10,000 to be on pre-screen list until jan
$50,000 deposit if selected in feb
2 year lease with intent to buy at end
non-transferable, u.s. only (this offer)

[Vudoo4u2]

yawns @ overly expensive lexus....

[darkphantom]

Ok, I don't know if it is me, but the more I look at this car, the more goofy the front is looking to me...
This picture is really screaming toyota....
the concept just looked way cooler

[Scorpion]

They need to close the hood...

[f=ma]

So here are a few more interesting tidbits:

- the car does have launch control
- apparently, the claimed 3.6 seconds 0-60 mph time from Lexus was achieved without using the car's launch control (it looks like Toyota is being coy about the car's true performance potential)
- at 202 mph, the LFA generates over 552 pounds of downforce
- the engine doesn't have direct injection; Toyota could have added it, but felt it wasn't needed, partly because F1 engines don't use direct injection

to be honest, its very very rare to find a non-awd car go 0-60 in 3.6.

[f=ma]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Yes, but Toyota is the largest car company in the world, with the resources to match. Add 10, yes, TEN years of development and a $375,000 sticker and what do you get? A rather dim halo if you ask me. What performance aspect of this car is rule changing? Not much.

It should KILL ALL COMERS given these things, Japanese perfection and nothing less, space alien performance stats.

It should destroy all the ankle biters known as Koenigsegg, Gumpert, McLaren, even Ferrari...but it appears it will only match them and with a marque that carries as much heft in sports car history as balloon boy.

It'll undoubtly perform but that's a hollow compliment given what it could have been. That's what the criticism stems from. Nissan is victor here.

???where did nissan come from?


The LFA is an answer to A LOT of questions and criticisms that many people have asked about Toyota/Lexus over the years.

Questions/criticisms such as:

- What is the point of Toyota's F1 involvement?
- Toyota will never be able to compete with supercar makers
- Toyota lacks innovation, they simply copy other's ideas and perfect them
- Toyota lacks passion
- Toyota doesn't know about performance
- and on and on

The point is, the LFA answers ALL of these questions and criticisms about Toyota.

[Spec 1]

Originally Posted by f=ma

to be honest, its very very rare to find a non-awd car go 0-60 in 3.6.

Holy crap, that's as fast as my bike

[domobrown]

Originally Posted by Scorpion

They need to close the hood...

Haha, my first thought. But the car looks good IMO. I like the small details, such as the scoops in the side mirrors. Some nice touches

[335fourdoor]

Originally Posted by f=ma

So here are a few more interesting tidbits:

- the car does have launch control
- apparently, the claimed 3.6 seconds 0-60 mph time from Lexus was achieved without using the car's launch control (it looks like Toyota is being coy about the car's true performance potential)
- at 202 mph, the LFA generates over 552 pounds of downforce
- the engine doesn't have direct injection; Toyota could have added it, but felt it wasn't needed, partly because F1 engines don't use direct injection

to be honest, its very very rare to find a non-awd car go 0-60 in 3.6.

zr1 does it in 3.3 sec @110k msrp.

[f=ma]

Originally Posted by 335fourdoor

zr1 does it in 3.3 sec @110k msrp.

yeah one of the few

[graider]

Originally Posted by 335fourdoor

zr1 does it in 3.3 sec @110k msrp.

to be fair, it is boosted though. with any boosted car, the possibility is endless.