[GoingTooFast]

Ok, I will call you Perreby then...


Perreby,

Can you tell me when the standard 4C will be available in Europe? I was told first it was September but now they say October. Can you confirm this, please?

[GoingTooFast]

Some interesting convenience features of the Alfa 4C that can be ordered or are standard:

1. Hi fi upgrade
2. Park sensors
3. Cruise control
4. Interior bag
5. 12v socket/cigar lighter
6. Ashtray
7. Cup holders

Looking at this list I get the impression that we are in the presence of a 'luxury sedan' when compared to a Lotus... talking about everyday practicality...

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[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I drive a Mazda dude. I'm currently looking at a Subaru, a Porsche and this Alfa. I honestly have no interest in any current BMW, aside from possibly the far off M2.

But yeah, my M Coupe let a lot of water in too and the rear subframe liked to do a little walk about. As for local math, sorry for your current situation, but 1M's were about half that in actual USD, not that $50k excuses actual water intrusion.

As for Alfa, those cars are the last reference point for most Americans. My old coworker in Frankfurt had a 147 diesel that aside from what appeared to be elephant hide for a dash, was a great little car. I used the company carpool to drive many Alfas while I was over there and have nothing but fond memories of those, better than most of the German cars I checked out.

You listed exactly the same cars as me.

BRZ: best learners tool, most fun and involving
4C: lightest with alot of tuning potential, unfortunately no manual
Cayman: best over-all package imaginable


Well, I'm more interested in a RWD Giulia as DD.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

Well, I'm more interested in a RWD Giulia as DD.

Heavy pig! This is a whole different ball game.

Originally Posted by Levi

BRZ: best learners tool, most fun and involving

A lot less fuel-efficient when driven hard than a 15 years-old more powerful S2000?! No, thanks. Unacceptable!

Originally Posted by Levi

Cayman: best over-all package imaginable

Except for price and reliability (also 981 looks ). Not the most fuel-efficient for performance.

Originally Posted by Levi

4C: lightest with alot of tuning potential, unfortunately no manual

The closest DD to a 'race car' experience of them all for a fair price. The most beautiful looks and the best fuel-efficiency! The winner formula.

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[GoingTooFast]

[Red Bread]

I'd be very curious to see what sort of track efficiency the 4C has vs the 981, I'd suspect it is much, much worse. As for styling, we all prefer different things, but I greatly prefer the 981 to the 987.2.

The BRZ is proving to have some durability issues when driven hard, at least the rental N'Ring cars have all developed starvation issues, yet some cars have not developed similar issues. The blend of DI and low pressure fuel injection is surely where all gas motors will go, hopefully they get it sorted out. For me personally, it also appears to have some cooling issues in hot climates, something the Porsche seems to not be prone to.

Dissing a daily driver for being heavy, especially one that isn't even in existence yet is a bit silly, but then I expect nothing less from you. Hugz.

[gonzo]

I remember the scene well.
Towards the middle of the scene, Toto pulls the curtain open and its just a little old man.

[GoingTooFast]

Two carbonfiber monocoques side by side the X-Bow and the Alfa 4C... one is a DD, find which one

[nicknaz]

$60k-$89k price for the 4C is going to be a tough sell.

[GoingTooFast]

$89k US ?!?!?!

We are not talking about Porsche here...

[GoingTooFast]

This is what you'll see first on your car mirrors...

[GoingTooFast]

Then, all you see ahead will be this...

[Moegviralles]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Ok, I will call you Perreby then...


Perreby,

Can you tell me when the standard 4C will be available in Europe? I was told first it was September but now they say October. Can you confirm this, please?

Well pricing for the standard car is supposed to be revealed during the FOS festival this weekend.

And orders was supposed to open in June... Official delivery in Europe will only take place after the LE's are finished and off the production line.. So the standard version will probably only hit the markets fully early next year...

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

There are two things you can count on from GTF, a near complete lack of tact and unfailing love for a nobody F1 test driver.

WTF??!?!?!


Now that we have the public confirmation of what was to me already obvious... that former Kobayshi's 2012 F1 team, Sauber, was having financial problems and DESPERATELY NEEDED big 'pay drivers' for the 2013 season what Kobayashi clearly wasn't (hence he was dismissed)...

Unpaid suppliers file claims against ailing Sauber

According to Swiss business newspaper Handeslzeitung, dozens of unpaid suppliers have filed claims, totalling almost EUR 1 million.

Jul.12 (GMM) The depths of Sauber's financial problems are now beginning to emerge.

The Swiss business newspaper Handeslzeitung reports that dozens of unpaid suppliers to the struggling Hinwil based team have filed claims, totalling almost EUR 1 million.

The report said the suppliers have waited several months for their invoices to be paid, before lodging the claims against Sauber with the official Swiss debt register Betreibungsregister.

"We are very much in contact with our suppliers," founder Peter Sauber is quoted as saying, "and make every effort to get out of this situation as quickly as possible."

The Swiss daily Tages-Anzeiger said Sauber, who may also owe money to engine supplier Ferrari, needs to fill an additional $30 million hole simply to complete the 2013 season.

It has been reported that Sauber is in talks with a financial saviour from Russia, but the latest rumour is that the possibility of a tie-up with an international Asian carmaker is also on the table.

... I also end up knowing that Kamui Kobayashi will be driving a Porsche 997 GT3 R for Taisan Ken Endless (2012 Super GT GT300 class champions) in the inaugural Asian Le Mans Series season that will end in Indonesia at 8 December this year.





How is that possible, since is also driving for Ferrari in the WEC?!

[Red Bread]

I do agree with you that Kobi is a fun driver to watch, we just diverge on whether he deserves a real seat. But I also think that Schumi wasn't much fun to watch. Good and fun don't always go together. Senna was probably the last truly demonstrative good driver. However, I still enjoy a riveting Kimi post race interview, I swear he's always seconds away from just passing out from boredom.

As for Alfa, it looks like things could get interesting:
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/12/m...-out-of-italy/

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I do agree with you that Kobi is a fun driver to watch, we just diverge on whether he deserves a real seat.

Are you saying that Massa, Webber, Grojean just to mention those in this season's more competitive teams they all deserve to have a seat?!

And, further still, more than Kobayashi?! You have no idea of what Kobayashi would be able to do in a true competitive team... no idea!

As for Senna, he very soon had the chance to drive for a F1 competetive team right in his 2nd year when he joined Lotus. And, for your information my childhood hero and my only idol was Nelson Piquet, the very same that gave BMW their only F1 championship title, in 1983, with the turbocharged engine. Also, you should now this:

Senna tested for Formula One teams Williams, McLaren, Brabham and Toleman. Peter Warr of Lotus, Ron Dennis of McLaren, and Bernie Ecclestone of Brabham made offers for testing in 1984 and presented long-term contracts that tied Senna to driving later on. At his test for Williams at Donington Park, Senna completed 40 laps and was quicker than the other drivers including Keke Rosberg.[15] Neither Williams nor McLaren had a vacancy for the 1984 season.[15] Warr actually wanted to replace Nigel Mansell with Senna at Lotus, but the title sponsor, Imperial Tobacco, wanted a British driver. Senna, however, was determined to drive that season and certainly on his own terms. Senna's test for Brabham occurred at Paul Ricard in November 1983 and he set lap times two seconds slower than the team's lead driver, Nelson Piquet who gave Senna the nickname "the São Paulo taxi driver".

Originally Posted by Red Bread

As for Alfa, it looks like things could get interesting:
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/12/m...-out-of-italy/

'Nuff Said?!

Marchionne's frankness continued, "The only weapon we have is to get a slice of the high-end market, which we haven't been able to tackle in the past because of laziness or inability – leaving our German friends alone. We want to disturb the idyllic environment they've created for themselves."

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[Red Bread]

If anyone can make Alfa work, it's Marchionne, but it's still a tall order. The Ghibli is probably the most important product to get right and the fate of the roadster project, especially being tied to a financially perilous Mazda is also going to be huge for them.

Unfortunately for Kobi, lots of people in F1 think that past success is more important than potential, so folks like Webber and Massa get a ride nearly automatically. I can't explain Grosjean, I'm really not clear on why he's got a seat at all.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Unfortunately for Kobi, lots of people in F1 think that past success is more important than potential, so folks like Webber and Massa get a ride nearly automatically. I can't explain Grosjean, I'm really not clear on why he's got a seat at all.

What is the past sucess of drivers like Webber and Massa?!

[Red Bread]

Between then, twenty race wins, eight constructors championships and 1,700 points.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Between then, twenty race wins, eight constructors championships and 1,700 points.

1. Can you tell me in what teams?!
   
   
2. Were they systematically beaten by their team mates at the end of the season?!
   
   
3. For how long?!

[GoingTooFast]

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

$89k US ?!?!?!

We are not talking about Porsche here...

Agreed.

Check this out if you haven't yet seen it

The cost of carbon fiber hasn't dropped as rapidly as Alfa hoped, so it can't price the 4C below $60,000

...

The first Alfa 4Cs will be sent to the U.S. market with an estimated $86,000 sticker

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...17-future-cars

Hope the magazine is incorrect and it does come in at the $60k or below mark because 8.8lb/hp (2200lb/250hp) is not very impressive these days for an unknown and unproven brand like Alfa