[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

I don't think that is the question here.
The use of excessive force on an old lady, and laughing about her injury (& pain?) is dissing her.
I find humor in many strange places. But not everyone agrees with my sense of humor, and I must self censor, especially in a professional setting.
I don't think they should be fired for this, but maybe assign them to parking duty at an Old Folks Home for a while.

....so they can laugh at all of the death like the firemen do (...and so the media can shit their panties because some cop laughed at a 73 year old's death)?!? That's what begins to happen when people are dying left & right around you every day.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

So your suggestion is that someone who privately has a laugh at work with co-workers that you disagree with should be punished? Think about this, you're sitting at a desk at work with a co-worker and you watch something that you think is funny on a computer, this is captured on security video and someone from the public becomes outraged at that so you should be punished. You didn't laugh in the face of the person who was on the video, and didn't interact with them at all for that matter.

If you think that's ok then you my friend are the one with the problem

Agreed! This thought police rhetoric is complete nonsense.

[mahalom3]

A lot of people want to tell us how we should do it, but are unwilling to actually get out here and do it themselves and have their perspectives challenged. I liken it to the people who watch UFC fights and say what the person should've done or how they would've done it, but they've never been in a fight in their lives.[/QUOTE]

They have never fought we a person who is in a state of "Excited Delirium" We fought with a HMA, who we ended up tazing with no effect, fight is still on, got him on the ground face down, it took five of us to get him on hand-cuffs. I always request CDF/AMR to stage close by and why the public must ask is because while we had him laying on the ground, I then heck for pulse, no pulse not breathing. I rolled him over to his side, took the hand-cuffs off and had CDF roll in. CDF arrived and administered CPR and got his heart going and transported to the local hospital. It felt like eternity but actually it took about 10 -15 minutes. I spoke to the family after and they thank us for saving his life. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about...

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Murf993

So your suggestion is that someone who privately has a laugh at work with co-workers that you disagree with should be punished?....
If you think that's ok then you my friend are the one with the problem

No, I'm saying that someone who disses the client in public, or in front of the client, is in the wrong.
I find the force used on Grandma reason for the Old Folks Home Assignment. It would be a recalibration.

[Dang3r]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That type of behavior basically falls under vandalism. Because lane splitting is allowed in California, it's basically an unwritten practice to give motorcyclists space. With that said, we have callous drivers here and sometimes they pull into the path of the motorcycle on purpose. This leads to the incident(s) you mentioned in your inquiry.

Thank you for clarifiying this, so in conclusion I have to make way for bikers from behind at any situation (under safe conditions) into Cali and into other states are not.
So if my car got damaged then by the biker if he maybe underestimates the available space...is that my fault by leaving too less space or must he wait behind until its safe to pass? Just asking as a tourist into your country...

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

....so they can laugh at all of the death like the firemen do (...and so the media can shit their panties because some cop laughed at a 73 year old's death)?!? That's what begins to happen when people are dying left & right around you every day.

Oooh kayyyy....

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Dang3r

Thank you for clarifiying this, so in conclusion I have to make way for bikers from behind at any situation (under safe conditions) into Cali and into other states are not.
So if my car got damaged then by the biker if he maybe underestimates the available space...is that my fault by leaving too less space or must he wait behind until its safe to pass? Just asking as a tourist into your country...

Most motorcyclists know how much space they have. If you didn't move at all the motorcyclist would still be fine. It's the people who move to the right, effectively restricting the path of movement, that initiates the road rage. My advice is to either not move at all or move very slightly to the left. The motorcyclist will thank you for it (...and sometimes they/we will stretch our left arm out at you at an angle....and with an open hand or "peace" sign....as a visual gesture of appreciation; it's a positive thing, so don't interpret it as though the rider was being rude.).

Originally Posted by mahalom3

They have never fought we a person who is in a state of "Excited Delirium" We fought with a HMA, who we ended up tazing with no effect, fight is still on, got him on the ground face down, it took five of us to get him on hand-cuffs. I always request CDF/AMR to stage close by and why the public must ask is because while we had him laying on the ground, I then heck for pulse, no pulse not breathing. I rolled him over to his side, took the hand-cuffs off and had CDF roll in. CDF arrived and administered CPR and got his heart going and transported to the local hospital. It felt like eternity but actually it took about 10 -15 minutes. I spoke to the family after and they thank us for saving his life. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about...

I sure do. I'll probably be dealing with that same situation multiple times today.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

No, I'm saying that someone who disses the client in public, or in front of the client, is in the wrong.
I find the force used on Grandma reason for the Old Folks Home Assignment. It would be a recalibration.

So then you think these officers should be punished for laughing at a video and not the actual person on the video.

I loved being a police officer for a lot of reasons. I wanted to help people, and I wanted to investigate crimes. I won't share the horrors I saw, experienced, smelled, tasted and had to clean off my self (literally). Sometimes I laughed at them, and at the weirdest times. Just about the best part of the job was working with coppers. We shared the successes, failures and tragedies. We help one another through, to think that this one aspect of the job that keeps you sane is now something that should get you punished because some Monday morning quarterback doesn't agree is fucked. But I get the times are changing and I'm going to suggest to you that you might want to be careful of what you wish for.

If policing get's remodelled in the wants and desires of everyone with clearly an anti police bias then society is going to go to shit in the not to distant future.

[rwheels]

Originally Posted by mahalom3

Your absolutely correct! This career is not for everyone. You have to have a little bit of sense of humor because this job will eat you up mentally and physically. Its funny sometimes just reading some of the comments on how the public thinks how we should do our job. Unfortunately, the media is not our friend and hot topic in today's society is Defund and F the Police!! SAD!!

Because you asked; from an internet comment. (source unknown)

"Defund the Police? Okay. Let's Talk About That."

"Defund the Police. Let's talk about it. But don't stop reading until it is over because you might be surprised. Lets get 2 things out of the way.
1st, the phrase "Defund the Police" is the stupidest proposal ever.
2nd, I actually support the concept at its roots.
Defund means to prevent from receive funding or to withdraw funds from. And I believe the term “Defund the Police” is intentionally inflammatory, divisive, and charged. It's meant to inspire confidence in extreme outliers that the officers will be fired left and right to open a new utopia. It's meant to bring fear to officers and departments that they will be rooted out and terminated. But that's not what it means, and its own title will hinder its progress.
Someone who has pull within this movement should immediately change the title to "Stop Overburdening the Police," because truly, that's what they mean.
When I started in 2004, if I met a person in crisis, a person with suicidal ideations, a person with a mental illness (diagnosed or not), I could at my discretion or their request drive them to the state mental hospital in downtown Phoenix. I would pull up to the front door and drop them off [where] the problem was dealt with by trained social service employees and medical clinicians. Transients could be directed to one of several shelters to receive food, a bed, supplies, or aid. But resources slowly, and quietly began getting shut down. It actually took me almost a year to realize that the state mental hospital didn't exist any more. Not only could it no longer be used as a resource for me, but also the occupants that were housed there were released and trickled out on to the streets.
• Instead of defunding the police, stop overburdening them. Support crisis intervention teams from your local hospital that are available 24 hours a day to respond out to calls for help. Understand that some programs like that currently exist. Most are underfunded, available intermittently, and almost all require officers to be dispatched with them. If there are no police, they will not go either. Police Officers receive (an anecdotal guess) 2 to 8 hours of crisis training per year, unless an individual officer elects or is directed to attend a 1 week class. Still nowhere near what a social worker does. Don't make police officers responsible for dealing with your community's mentally ill.
• Don't make police officers responsible for dealing with your community's homeless population.
Support homeless shelters, low-income housing, multi-family housing units, and other resources in your community. High housing costs, population density, unemployment, and the aforementioned mental health issues are causing an increase in homelessness and transients. Officers receive (an anecdotal guess) 0 hours per year training specifically on homeless issues. Some officers may seek out training or resources personally, as a matter of interest.
• Don't make police officers responsible for dealing with unsupervised kids in the community.
Support after school programs for kids, childcare facilities, sports programs, park programs, and tutoring centers. Children raised in single parent households are usually at home by themselves after school. Idle hands are the devil's playground. Without positive adult role models, positive activities, positive social interaction, and adult supervision, kids will engage in petty crimes, try smoking or drug use, or flock to peers with strong (but sometimes unhealthy) personalities. Kids don't need to be introduced to the criminal justice system. They need to be raised responsibly and integrated in to society.
• Don't make officers responsible for applying criminal law to civil issues or for providing civil law advise to people. Support self-service centers at your courthouse. Custody exchanges, custody disputes, property disputes, landlord tenant issues, etc. are not police issues. Attorneys go to school for 6 years or so. Officers get (on average) a 16-week academy and a 16-week field-training program. Most of it focused on criminal law. Stop introducing people in to the criminal justice system when they need civil law assistance.

• Support increased funding and training for Emergency Call Centers. 911 centers are the first line of discretion in an agency. Many centers receive a call for any request from a citizen and enter a call for service without question. Once that call is entered, an officer must respond. First off, call centers across the country are severely under funded, understaffed, overworked, and burned out. They are almost working on autopilot, for up to 16 hours per shift, days in a row. Demand higher pay for dispatchers, attract better candidates, hire qualified applicants, train them more, and fully staff the centers. Provide call takers with basic civil and criminal law classes to allow them to filter out non-police issues and direct citizens to the right service. In most locations, if you call 911 (for other than a clear medical emergency) you will get the police. But the police are not always what are needed. Don't use the police as a catchall for any problem you have.
• Support evaluating and repealing stupid criminal statutes. Why was Eric Garner contacted in the first place? For selling Loosies (Loose, singe cigarettes). Why is that even illegal? America loves legislating behavior in to crimes. And by crime, I mean something that could put a person in a jail, even for a day. Not picking up dog poop should not be a crime. Driving without a license should not be a crime. Walking in the street next to a sidewalk should not be a crime. Receiving a product to sell in a package and selling the contents individually should not be a crime. There are civil ways of dealing with issues. Zoning, Code Enforcement, Health Department, etc., can issue warning, fines, liens, etc. Don't use the police to incarcerate people for low-level offenses that shouldn't be unlawful anyway.
• Finally, stop using your police department as a one-stop shop for all your life's problems.
o Don't call the police because someone is finishing in your HOA pond.
o Don't call the police because the ducks behind your house are too loud.
o Don't call the police because your 7 and 9 year old are arguing over Pokémon cards.
o Don't call the police because your 11 year old refuses to go to school.
o Don't call the police because you found weed in your 14 year old's room.
o Don't call the police because your ex is 15 minutes late bringing the kids back.
o Don't call the police because someone shoplifted $2.49 earrings.
o Don't call the police because your neighbor trimmed your tree over the property line.
o Don't call the police because you saw a black male walking and you've never seen him in the neighborhood before.
o Don't call the police because your neighbor has parked their car in the street for the last 3 weeks.
(FYI, every single one of these is a real call that I personally have responded to in my career).

In summary, Defund the Police? No. Don't Defund the Police. The Police are a necessary part of society that must exist to intervene in violent crimes, criminal investigations, traffic enforcement, etc. Stop Overburdening the Police. Stop relying on the police as your single point of contact with the government. Stop pretending like 36 weeks of training make a person an expert in criminal law, civil law, medical care, childcare, adult care, social work, mental health, physician, counseling, accident reconstruction, and housing. Don't punish the police for being the dumping ground of every other agency, department, and administration that doesn't want to deal with something. Properly fund your entire government and your private social outreach organizations, Hold your tax exempt organizations responsible for their tax exempt status.
And in all seriousness, change the movement's title, because there are some good concepts in there. But Defunding is going to turn off a lot of people before you can even explain."

Like it, or not, responsibility begins at home, from either side.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by rwheels

Because you asked; from an internet comment. (source unknown)

Defund the Police? Okay. Let's Talk About That.

Defund the Police. Let's talk about it. But don't stop reading until it is over because you might be surprised. Lets get 2 things out of the way.
1st, the phrase "Defund the Police" is the stupidest proposal ever.
2nd, I actually support the concept at its roots.
Defund means to prevent from receive funding or to withdraw funds from. And I believe the term "Defund the Police" is intentionally inflammatory, divisive, and charged. It's meant to inspire confidence in extreme outliers that the officers will be fired left and right to open a new utopia. It's meant to bring fear to officers and departments that they will be rooted out and terminated. But that's not what it means, and its own title will hinder its progress.
Someone who has pull within this movement should immediately change the title to "Stop Overburdening the Police," because truly, that's what they mean.
When I started in 2004, if I met a person in crisis, a person with suicidal ideations, a person with a mental illness (diagnosed or not), I could at my discretion or their request drive them to the state mental hospital in downtown Phoenix. I would pull up to the front door and drop them off [where] the problem was dealt with by trained social service employees and medical clinicians. Transients could be directed to one of several shelters to receive food, a bed, supplies, or aid. But resources slowly, and quietly began getting shut down. It actually took me almost a year to realize that the state mental hospital didn't exist any more. Not only could it no longer be used as a resource for me, but also the occupants that were housed there were released and trickled out on to the streets.
• Instead of defunding the police, stop overburdening them. Support crisis intervention teams from your local hospital that are available 24 hours a day to respond out to calls for help. Understand that some programs like that currently exist. Most are underfunded, available intermittently, and almost all require officers to be dispatched with them. If there are no police, they will not go either. Police Officers receive (an anecdotal guess) 2 to 8 hours of crisis training per year, unless an individual officer elects or is directed to attend a 1 week class. Still nowhere near what a social worker does. Don't make police officers responsible for dealing with your community's mentally ill.
• Don't make police officers responsible for dealing with your community's homeless population.
Support homeless shelters, low-income housing, multi-family housing units, and other resources in your community. High housing costs, population density, unemployment, and the aforementioned mental health issues are causing an increase in homelessness and transients. Officers receive (an anecdotal guess) 0 hours per year training specifically on homeless issues. Some officers may seek out training or resources personally, as a matter of interest.
• Don't make police officers responsible for dealing with unsupervised kids in the community.
Support after school programs for kids, childcare facilities, sports programs, park programs, and tutoring centers. Children raised in single parent households are usually at home by themselves after school. Idle hands are the devil's playground. Without positive adult role models, positive activities, positive social interaction, and adult supervision, kids will engage in petty crimes, try smoking or drug use, or flock to peers with strong (but sometimes unhealthy) personalities. Kids don't need to be introduced to the criminal justice system. They need to be raised responsibly and integrated in to society.
• Don't make officers responsible for applying criminal law to civil issues or for providing civil law advise to people. Support self-service centers at your courthouse. Custody exchanges, custody disputes, property disputes, landlord tenant issues, etc. are not police issues. Attorneys go to school for 6 years or so. Officers get (on average) a 16-week academy and a 16-week field-training program. Most of it focused on criminal law. Stop introducing people in to the criminal justice system when they need civil law assistance.

• Support increased funding and training for Emergency Call Centers. 911 centers are the first line of discretion in an agency. Many centers receive a call for any request from a citizen and enter a call for service without question. Once that call is entered, an officer must respond. First off, call centers across the country are severely under funded, understaffed, overworked, and burned out. They are almost working on autopilot, for up to 16 hours per shift, days in a row. Demand higher pay for dispatchers, attract better candidates, hire qualified applicants, train them more, and fully staff the centers. Provide call takers with basic civil and criminal law classes to allow them to filter out non-police issues and direct citizens to the right service. In most locations, if you call 911 (for other than a clear medical emergency) you will get the police. But the police are not always what are needed. Don't use the police as a catchall for any problem you have.
• Support evaluating and repealing stupid criminal statutes. Why was Eric Garner contacted in the first place? For selling Loosies (Loose, singe cigarettes). Why is that even illegal? America loves legislating behavior in to crimes. And by crime, I mean something that could put a person in a jail, even for a day. Not picking up dog poop should not be a crime. Driving without a license should not be a crime. Walking in the street next to a sidewalk should not be a crime. Receiving a product to sell in a package and selling the contents individually should not be a crime. There are civil ways of dealing with issues. Zoning, Code Enforcement, Health Department, etc., can issue warning, fines, liens, etc. Don't use the police to incarcerate people for low-level offenses that shouldn't be unlawful anyway.
• Finally, stop using your police department as a one-stop shop for all your life's problems.
o Don't call the police because someone is finishing in your HOA pond.
o Don't call the police because the ducks behind your house are too loud.
o Don't call the police because your 7 and 9 year old are arguing over Pokémon cards.
o Don't call the police because your 11 year old refuses to go to school.
o Don't call the police because you found weed in your 14 year old's room.
o Don't call the police because your ex is 15 minutes late bringing the kids back.
o Don't call the police because someone shoplifted $2.49 earrings.
o Don't call the police because your neighbor trimmed your tree over the property line.
o Don't call the police because you saw a black male walking and you've never seen him in the neighborhood before.
o Don't call the police because your neighbor has parked their car in the street for the last 3 weeks.
(FYI, every single one of these is a real call that I personally have responded to in my career).

In summary, Defund the Police? No. Don't Defund the Police. The Police are a necessary part of society that must exist to intervene in violent crimes, criminal investigations, traffic enforcement, etc. Stop Overburdening the Police. Stop relying on the police as your single point of contact with the government. Stop pretending like 36 weeks of training make a person an expert in criminal law, civil law, medical care, childcare, adult care, social work, mental health, physician, counseling, accident reconstruction, and housing. Don't punish the police for being the dumping ground of every other agency, department, and administration that doesn't want to deal with something. Properly fund your entire government and your private social outreach organizations, Hold your tax exempt organizations responsible for their tax exempt status.
And in all seriousness, change the movement's title, because there are some good concepts in there. But Defunding is going to turn off a lot of people before you can even explain.

Like it, or not, responsibility begins at home, from either side.

I agree with much of that.

[Lady Jane]

And then, there's this POS....


https://timesnewsexpress.com/news/ne...ers-sentenced/

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

And then, there's this POS....


https://timesnewsexpress.com/news/ne...ers-sentenced/

Yikes!


You know, I wish we could strike. I would totally be on board with it.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yikes!


You know, I wish we could strike. I would totally be on board with it.

We had the ability to "work to rule" during our collective bargaining. What that means was doing the job to the letter. For example, when clearing at the beginning of shift you must comply with every rule and procedure. I won't bore you with the details but if you do everything that is required you could be an hour before you actually pulled onto the street. If we did our jobs to the letter precious little would ever get done.

[Littlebear]

"So then you think these officers should be punished for laughing at a video and not the actual person on the video."

Originally Posted by Littlebear

No, I'm saying that someone who disses the client in public, or in front of the client, is in the wrong.
I find the force used on Grandma reason for the Old Folks Home Assignment. It would be a recalibration.

Look at the trouble this video will cause re public relations alone. Private industry: Sayonara.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

"So then you think these officers should be punished for laughing at a video and not the actual person on the video."

Look at the trouble this video will cause re public relations alone. Private industry: Sayonara.

The latter only in current "cancel culture" climate. The "thought police" situation should not be tolerated regardless. People should be allowed to have free thought and expression. People should learn to tolerate that which they don't like.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The latter only in current "cancel culture" climate. The "thought police" situation should not be tolerated regardless. People should be allowed to have free thought and expression. People should learn to tolerate that which they don't like.

I'm not sure what you are speaking of, but I'm speaking of the actions caught on video, not 'thoughts'.

We once had a vet tech who ripped off his shirt & challenged a client to step outside. The vet tech was gone the next day. We could not have confidence in someone with so little self control under pressure.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

"So then you think these officers should be punished for laughing at a video and not the actual person on the video."



Look at the trouble this video will cause re public relations alone. Private industry: Sayonara.

And that's the rub my friend. If this happened in the private sector do you think it would be international news? This is yet another example of the hate the MSM has for LEO. And the outrage by members of the public who are also looking for reasons to be outraged, triggered or just generally mad at the cops. I'm not mentioning any names though.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

And that's the rub my friend. If this happened in the private sector do you think it would be international news? This is yet another example of the hate the MSM has for LEO. And the outrage by members of the public who are also looking for reasons to be outraged, triggered or just generally mad at the cops. I'm not mentioning any names though.

"Heyyyyyy Boo Boo!!!"

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

"Heyyyyyy Boo Boo!!!"

Well played.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Murf993

And that's the rub my friend. If this happened in the private sector do you think it would be international news? This is yet another example of the hate the MSM has for LEO. And the outrage by members of the public who are also looking for reasons to be outraged, triggered or just generally mad at the cops. I'm not mentioning any names though.

Hard to argue wit dat; I would just nudge it in a milder direction!
But a big difference might be that a private firm would take care of the situation... Stat!

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

"Heyyyyyy Boo Boo!!!"

Yo Swee'Pea!!!!

PS: Thanks Clan! Boo Boo was the smarter bear, with Yogi being the big buffoon, who always thought he was the Ranger.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Well played.

Who lowered the net so far??