[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by fugmaglottu

They have the light weight body from the i8 and more or less the design.

If only it were that easy. It is already tight enough with the little 3 cylinder in the back of the i8. I don't see how that could even consider fitting in a V8tt, let alone the S55.

[kyleb350]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

If only it were that easy. It is already tight enough with the little 3 cylinder in the back of the i8. I don't see how that could even consider fitting in a V8tt, let alone the S55.

Having looked in the back of one, I'd be surprised if they could fit a 4 cylinder in there, much less an I6 or V8.

[dclowd9901]

The point of a supercar (outside of companies that make them strictly) is as a halo or flagship vehicle to prove the manufacturer is still relevant. Lexus had to prove they could create a serious performance car, and went out and created (what is widely regarded as) the best supercar ever made. Audi, a brand famous for its rally breeding and crushing pragmatism roped in some Lamborghini guys and proved they still have racing blood and an edge of insanity.

BMW has nothing to prove. They've been selling the line "the ultimate driving machine" for years, and no one who drives their cars doubts that for a second.

Of course, now that their "perfect driving car" image is falling behind the likes of Chevy's new Stingray, and Merc's traded in refinement for hot rod 6 Liter engines, BMW may have to come out swinging again to redistinguish themselves. Let's hope.

[8600RPM]

I really like the McLaren P1's strategy of adding the electric motor for more power but importantly for cutting lag all together from the turbo's by implementing electric power to cover the petrol engine's lag or build up of power. Would make for instant response like a naturally aspirated engine with the power potential of turbo's with the low end of electric. Pretty amazing. To me this is the future of supercars. It is the only way to make turbo cars lag free

[monkiboy48]

Originally Posted by kwsw

I mean I would even be happy seeing a gt3 style version of the M3 or M4 become a production model , not a limited run that never makes it to america like the CSL or GTS. To me that would be amazing. I mean while we are wishing, A all motor bmw straight six making over 450hp and lighter then 3300lbs. I'll stop but I would probably go to my local bmw dealer and kiss someone on the forehead for finally making my dreams come true. Thats a supercar to me! The funny thing is that formula has been working for porsche for years with the GT3/GT3RS. Make it $120k+ to cover these cost they can't come up with people will buy it

Exactly!!!

Everytime I take my E90 M3 in for service I always always comment on their survey. They need to focus more on enthusiasts cars. Enthusiasts don't care about more low end torque or fuel efficiency. We don't care about a car with a dual personality that is easy to drive and fast when we want to. The defining moment when I knew that BMW M was dead was when they had to pipe engine and exhaust noises through the speakers. They claim that they need to do that because the modern 3 and 5 series have such good sound isolation. The car enthusiast would say...why not just remove the sound damping? This would reduce weight and eliminate the need to piping sounds through the speakers. The driver wants to hear the noise and feel the vibrations. That's the whole point for driver's like us. This video from Porsche sold me:

[u2b]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfi__aUgfgE[/u2b]

BMW has money, they just need to re-focus their priorities to uphold their slogan..."The Ultimate Driving Machine".

Oh well, that's why I switched over to Porsche...have a 2015 GT3 on order.

Edit: Guess I can't embed videos.

[Yay-Z]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

It is not that don't have the cash. It is the bean counters not seeing the profit margins in a supercar project. They are already have a huge amount of R/D cost sunk in the i-program, which isn't going to turn a profit for a while. Bean counters want easy money, like from all the GT and Gran Coupe models.

Same situation going on with the 2-series. BMW M division fighting with the bean counters on whether the next gen 2-series should be rwd or fwd.

Time to face the facts, bean counters are running BMW right now.

Yep. Good short term for business, bad long term for the brand.

But they shouldnt build the supercar based on my thoughts since I probably wont be able to afford it. I do think theyre lacking a major halo car and the i8 is not it from a performance standpoint.

[2sporty]

wow, I'm impressed with the comments. Sounds like you guys are all business experts... a lot smarter than me. You should seriously think about applying for a job at BMW in Munich. The wife may not like it, but think about the money that they'd pay such an intelligent person like you. All you need to do is write what you're writing here, but as emails to BMW upper management!

[kevinlevrone]

Sorry, but I don't want a 400hp "supercar" from BMW. I prefer to admire the 700+hp beasts from the other manufacturers. BMW is good at many things, it just isn't good at making supercars.

Of course, they could think about lightening the M6 of 300kg by using carbon fiber panels and more aluminium in underbody and making a 600hp supercar with very little R&D money.

[Envyscorpio]

46 years since the M1 huh? I'm guessing there will be something coming out on the 50th anniversary. If BMW decides to make a super car, how will it be priced compare to the i8? Direct internal competition if the next halo car wants to compete with the likes of GT3/R8. Limited quantity with higher price in the Ferrari and Lambo range will need lots of convincing to the crowd that can afford it. Low annual production with long product life like the NSX seems more suitable to the brand supporter.

[vladberca]

The next 2 series will be RWD.
Maybe we'll see an interesting prototype at their 50th anniversary

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

The same was also said in an interview that the head of the M division gave recently and which was just published in the latest issue of the German magazin "sport auto":

The desire from the M division is certainly there, but the electrical division has priority and no M supercar is planned to be developed. He also said that the M division would not collaborate with the i division on a supercar based on the i8, as both have completely different priorities. He called that "book end strategy", for the M and i divisions being the bookends for the entire BMW strategy.

I believe that at least this aspect of BMW's strategy is wrong. Reasons:

- Both their main competitors for anything connected to sportive driving (Audi, AMG, Porsche) have at least one supercar, and it is obvious that such a halo car is very beneficial for other models of the same brand.

- The huge interest and positive reactions both from press and market to the i8 have proven that there definitely is a market for a BMW supercar.

- The claim the budget is too high and that you need at least 1bn to develop a new car is just a pretext, a lame excuse. If companies like Lamborghini, Ferrari and McLaren can produce supercars that are generally met with universal acclaim, and which financially speaking are far less robust, then BMW could easily do the same.


It seems to me the main problem is marketing related: BMW has concentrated itself and everyone's attention on the i8 as far as a sportive 2-seater is concerned, with a focus on an the electrical powertrain. If they were to use a similar carbon body for a petrol-powered supercar (at around the same price or even lower due to the less complex setup), this would make the i8 far less attractive and would counter their own claims to focus on sustainability for the entire BMW brand.

Like it or not, the aspect of sports driving along with the entire M division has become a mere appendix to BMW and mainly a marketing tool. BMW does not produce and does not intend to produce in a foreseeable future a real sportscar. And why should they? The head of the M division said that the management does not see it as necessary as sales are thriving without spending money on a project like a supercar. And if you look at the entire line-up of BMW (all the X cars, the new FWD cars etc.), only a tiny fraction of it has any connection to sportive driving. And even of those (Z4, M5, M6), their character is questionable...

Alpina_B3_Lux

[lfelunden]

Guys chill!

Everyone wants a supercar from the M division. Again I see people state why put money in that car (GT models etc.)... There's a reason for that, BMW lives from their regular models, so that's why they can put in billions in making a new model and still get a profit.
If they should do the same with a supercar, how many would actually buy it? I'm pretty sure it would be sold out directly, but the marketing director probably says something else.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

The same was also said in an interview that the head of the M division gave recently and which was just published in the latest issue of the German magazin "sport auto":

The desire from the M division is certainly there, but the electrical division has priority and no M supercar is planned to be developed. He also said that the M division would not collaborate with the i division on a supercar based on the i8, as both have completely different priorities. He called that "book end strategy", for the M and i divisions being the bookends for the entire BMW strategy.

I believe that at least this aspect of BMW's strategy is wrong. Reasons:

- Both their main competitors for anything connected to sportive driving (Audi, AMG, Porsche) have at least one supercar, and it is obvious that such a halo car is very beneficial for other models of the same brand.

- The huge interest and positive reactions both from press and market to the i8 have proven that there definitely is a market for a BMW supercar.

- The claim the budget is too high and that you need at least 1bn to develop a new car is just a pretext, a lame excuse. If companies like Lamborghini, Ferrari and McLaren can produce supercars that are generally met with universal acclaim, and which financially speaking are far less robust, then BMW could easily do the same.


It seems to me the main problem is marketing related: BMW has concentrated itself and everyone's attention on the i8 as far as a sportive 2-seater is concerned, with a focus on an the electrical powertrain. If they were to use a similar carbon body for a petrol-powered supercar (at around the same price or even lower due to the less complex setup), this would make the i8 far less attractive and would counter their own claims to focus on sustainability for the entire BMW brand.

Like it or not, the aspect of sports driving along with the entire M division has become a mere appendix to BMW and mainly a marketing tool. BMW does not produce and does not intend to produce in a foreseeable future a real sportscar. And why should they? The head of the M division said that the management does not see it as necessary as sales are thriving without spending money on a project like a supercar. And if you look at the entire line-up of BMW (all the X cars, the new FWD cars etc.), only a tiny fraction of it has any connection to sportive driving. And even of those (Z4, M5, M6), their character is questionable...

Alpina_B3_Lux

BMW sales vs. those of the brands you mention that do have "halo" cars demonstrate that BMW do not need a Halo car in order to compete. Audi can say what they want about the R8, but the reason they are selling more and more cars every month is because they are entering new markets with new products and offering an entry point to the brand lower than anything BMW or Mercedes have. Merc had the SLR, then the SLS, now the GT, but they're still loosing the sales crown to BMW. "Halo" cars are a pissing contest.

As for their range not being 'sportive' enough... BMW are not pricnipally a manufacturer of sports cars... and I don't think they ever have been. But there are more sportive options in the range now than there ever have been.

[vladberca]

There are at least 2 models track dedicated: M4 GTS and M2.
Not supercars, but there is something good ready to be released!

[clbmw]

i9 has pretty much all been confirmed, which whilst we don't know its spec it sounds promising, but it's not M branded according to reports.

If that sells as well as the i8 (which I read is sold out for 12 months) then one would guess the financial incentive for something more exotic again could be there. Goodness knows how BMW will compete with Porsche reading the refreshed 911 is on the horizon; Carrera and Carrera S models are being blown to 400 and 500+ BHP respectively according to car magazine.

All I can say is I'm glad I don't work for M, I'd have got really frustrated by now I hope BMW stop all the road blocking and just let M build it. If they can make it as good as a Ferrari or McLaren, and as exclusive, it will sell and make a profit.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by YungDro

I don't understand why they won't make one.. the i8 sold out like crazy.. they would make so much money from the supercar.. I just hope its a V10.

Might want to check your reading comprehension......

[savela]

Originally Posted by YungDro

I don't understand why they won't make one.. the i8 sold out like crazy.. they would make so much money from the supercar.. I just hope its a V10.

Not sure if this applies here but my understanding is that car companies benefit from the high MPG of electric cars which brings their average into line with US standards. The i8 has sold very well but the numbers are far too small to makeup for the development and production costs.

I've also read that the M5 V10 was likely the last of the supercar saloons.

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by dclowd9901

The point of a supercar (outside of companies that make them strictly) is as a halo or flagship vehicle to prove the manufacturer is still relevant. Lexus had to prove they could create a serious performance car, and went out and created (what is widely regarded as) the best supercar ever made. Audi, a brand famous for its rally breeding and crushing pragmatism roped in some Lamborghini guys and proved they still have racing blood and an edge of insanity.

BMW has nothing to prove. They've been selling the line "the ultimate driving machine" for years, and no one who drives their cars doubts that for a second.

Of course, now that their "perfect driving car" image is falling behind the likes of Chevy's new Stingray, and Merc's traded in refinement for hot rod 6 Liter engines, BMW may have to come out swinging again to redistinguish themselves. Let's hope.

I doubt that BMWs are more fun to drive.

[Diver]

Just stuff a bigger engine in the i8...

[SCOTT26]

There is some responses here that myself and many of my colleagues in Munich try not to choke when spitting out the word "enthusiast" in anger.
Granted it is a minority.

The most important thing that has been overlooked in this non relevant "puff piece" which I will explain why because BMW executives do not mention future products as the fact which this report has done. Interviews are conducted in the face of handlers which make sure you do not reveal too much.

But overlooked in the article is the fact that the BMW halo Sports car the BMW i8 has just hit the market and is not even a year on sale.

Why would BMW follow up this car immediately with something else when they are making headlines with this achievement.
There is headlines and attributes on the i8 but there is one phrase that echos in every sentence written about the i8 ....The Future...

The Future... The i8 is many achievements and answers the realm of possibility for a company like BMW it has the ability to be a landmark and a beacon for what is possible in a sports car. The i8 is a pioneer in many areas it does embarrass established sports cars especially what has been achieved for either less or the same money. The i8 is innovation at its highest peak , the i8 is desirability and like I said the i8 is The Future.
A road no one has even bothered to drive on. But they will...Eventually they will.

If we look at the i8 it might be a new product but its possibilities have grown since its sign off, it is too early to all about anything yet but let's us say that the possibilities and potential have increased and can very much retain the philosophy of the i8 in which less is most definitely more.
As is the M Division that can use the technical know-how and material construction.

The problem lies with patience. Some refuse to acknowledge the i8 because it is Not... And that is its character and reception because it is not...
There lies its status as BMWs halo car. Because its a window to what will be coming to your 7er , 5er and 3er. Its the template to an exciting future for volume cars and for BMW as a manufacturer as it will allow targets to be reached and exceed normal construction methods ahead of their competitors.

For now the moment belongs to the i8. Others will get their moment but patience is needed to allow progress.

And let the new guys get to work.

[TractionControl=OFF]

Why the hell would they spend so much money and time developing the x4, x6, 4 series gt, so on?! They could have used the money to START developing the M car. What the hell is wrong with this stupid company?!

[Matski]

Originally Posted by TractionControl=OFF

Why the hell would they spend so much money and time developing the x4, x6, 4 series gt, so on?! They could have used the money to START developing the M car. What the hell is wrong with this stupid company?!

Because those cars, though somewhat niche, will still do far high volumes than a M Supercar would, and therefore generate money... rather than simply use it up.

Seriously, BMW sold far more X4's in the first two months it was on sale than Audi sold R8's ALL last year, and you can bet that it cost BMW less to develop the X4 than it did Audi to develop the R8 --- and crucially Audi don't have to worry so much about loosing money, they are already owned by VW... a fate I don't much want to happen with BMW.