09-15-2013, 07:49 PM | #23 |
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It's probably because they want to make a 10 series or some bullshit
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09-15-2013, 08:14 PM | #24 | |
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09-15-2013, 08:22 PM | #25 | |
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09-15-2013, 08:22 PM | #26 |
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no i///M? Thank f'ing God!!! I've already given up on BMW... Porsche is all that's left.
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09-15-2013, 08:35 PM | #27 |
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Out of those, the current highly successful X1 client base (and to some extent the X3) is the one that could graduate into M territory, IMO. A compact 5-door SAV (non-coupe) that offers lots of power, excels in handling/responsiveness with RWD, etc. Fine if BMW wants to make it more powerful, fuel efficient (à la i8), along with xDrive and even give it a different code name (e.g., X2, X2M, iX2). But no thanks if it means having a FWD-biased UKL platform. There is already MINI for that.
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09-15-2013, 09:19 PM | #29 | |
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09-15-2013, 09:45 PM | #31 | |
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98% of people look at a base/standard car with M package and think "oh, that's an M car" My friend has a 128i with M package and he gets asked ALL THE TIME, "is that 1M?" sigh... The aura and the awesomeness of M has been gone a long time ago. Memory of the M1 can only last so long. I'm super glad there won't be M version of i8. Let there be a stand alone M1 successor. As well as 8 series, X7, Z8 successor, etc. |
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09-15-2013, 10:15 PM | #32 |
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Interesting comments and thread. Let's not take this down the M Badge watering down rabbit hole... we all know where it ends and this isn't the thread for it.
To Scott's lengthy explanation of the dogmas, it is evident (and quite common sense) that market demands drive the changes that have caused these dogmas to disappear and be thrown out the window. It makes sense. If BMW doesn't do this, then they go the way of Kodak, and we don't want that. I see a couple of things
I personally think that for the first iteration of a from-the-ground-up hybrid sports car, the i8 has very respectable numbers and it also has room to grow. Inevitably, BMWi will find a way to make it more powerful/faster/sportier without sacrificing the key qualities of BMWi. Just not this first iteration, and that's ok. And yes I know there is the Porsche 918 but again that's an exotic supercar with a huge (practically LeMans derived) engine, and to me it's a hybrid just to say it's a hybrid. The BMWi brand is about the hybrid tech/philisophy at the core, and it makes sense that they won't mess with that by sticking a V8 in a BMWi vehicle. I think part of the inherent success of the i8 is in all the negative comments. It looks like it should be a supercar, and people are disappointed that it isn't. What if we think of the i8 as the M3 of the future? (Yes it's not a track car, but again with new battery tech that is bound to be developed this will likely change) That way we're not expecting the end-all be-all of sports cars. We are expecting an everyday car with serious performance. Which the i8 has. Remember, there is a large gap between a Ford Focus and an SLS AMG Black Series. You can't have it both ways. We all complain that the usual hybrid looks like an econoshitbox and drives like your grandmother sleepy on vicodin, and now we have a real world hybrid that looks out of this world and performs like an M3 (quoted from BMW not my assertion) and we are all upset that it's not a Porsche 918 killer for 1/10th of the price. If we change our expectations about this car, I think a lot more people would be able to understand its purpose. OK off my soap box, we can go back to lamenting the proliferation of M badges on everything that has wheels and the letters B, M, or W anywhere in its name.... Last edited by ddk632; 09-16-2013 at 07:44 PM.. Reason: Formatting |
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09-15-2013, 11:13 PM | #34 |
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Scott is just playing the role of a typical car salesman and is trying to sell you what he has on the lot or has coming in. No plans for an M8 but hey we have an all new M4 coming in soon that is just as good. Except it looks very much like a 328i M Sport at half the price.
The i8 will share the same footnote in the history of BMW as the M1. A nice effort but poor execution. A 'true sports car' doesn't have a tiny 3 cylinder engine. For the same price you can get an M6 with twice the performance. The performance of the i8 is what you expect from an i4 but then BMW couldn't charge twice the price to re-coupe the R&D costs. Other than the CFRP, which has been around for how many years now? There is nothing earth shattering about the i3/i8. Put a perpetual motion machine in the cars to generate electricity and you will really have a game changer. BMW i PR reminds me of when the Segway came on the scene and how it was going to revolutionize transportation. |
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09-15-2013, 11:15 PM | #35 |
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Probably cos they're trying to not sacrifice sales of this i8. If they went around saying we would make an m version it would probably hurt sales.
I do see them using some of the technology from this car in future m models.
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09-15-2013, 11:21 PM | #36 | |
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09-16-2013, 12:57 AM | #37 |
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I think BMW i8 is a sports car and a super car. It's just a different type of a car and it is literally one of a kind with no direct competition.
It absolutely is a sports car but is it a super car? the performance isn't quite a prototypical super car, but I think price and exclusivity is more important when discussing what's a super car. BMW has done a great job with the i8. Except the genius decision of deserting a BMW design icon and implementing a signature Audi design. I cannot put into words how dumb I think the executives at BMW are. If I build a revolutionary BMW car, I make sure it is a BMW, not a BMW that is going to make everyone think "oh, Audi lights" On the side note, this should not make BMW feel sufficient to go ahead and scrap plans for a "proper" stand alone sports/super car. I'm giving BMW until 2020 for higher end cars such as 8 series, X7, and a proper super car. If not, I'm jumping ship and upgrading to Mercedes. |
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09-16-2013, 02:00 AM | #38 |
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Those M wheels look great under the i8!
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09-16-2013, 02:04 AM | #39 |
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Goodness, where are people's reading skills these days? It doesn't take much to read between the lines to deduce how these divisions operate:
Mr. Frankenberg says that not only was there zero input from M engineers in the development of the i8 Carsten Pries: It’s two different operations, there’s no fluctuation from BMW M to BMW i or any big transfers going the other way. Scott26 further explains why BMW believes it is important to maintain such division (brand) independence in the achievement of their core philosophies: for BMW , independence is the overall strategy or you become part of a committee which defines your strategy only if your sister brands can have it. Last edited by Chris Pringle; 09-16-2013 at 02:11 AM.. |
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09-16-2013, 02:30 AM | #40 |
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Scott had alluded to the wraith as being the top of the line BMW-derived sports car so to speak
For just ramming down the bahn or strada would be great Hopefully we see some cooler i-derived products and a M10... I wouldn't mind the 6.6L V12TT in a rear setup mated to dct or manual or add 2 more turbos |
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09-16-2013, 06:43 AM | #42 | |
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Whilst I personally don't have a problem with BMW embracing certain technologies if it's what the market demands and legislation requires, I do worry about another Dogma no longer Holding true:- "BMW's live up to their reputation as being the primary choice for the buyer who wants the most solid and sporting, involved, driving experience in any given segment" ... because it seems to me that both Mercedes-Benz and Audi have gained some ground here, in terms of product and general perception. |
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09-16-2013, 07:20 AM | #43 | |
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Scott26 makes the point beautifully that I hope the leaders of the i brand would consider. Conversely, what if the 'M' brand wishes to take learnings from the 'i' brand - especially with regard to CRPF, weight-saving and efficiency in drivetrain and aerodynamics. They could well work together.
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09-16-2013, 07:45 AM | #44 | |
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