[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

Full of issues, such as customers flying in to MUC, going to the Welt, then paying the Welt drop off fee for shipping and heading back on a fight just to save the 7%.

BMW NA should sell future ED cars at US market prices with incentives, then charge the customer the ED fee such as the European markets due. If leased, customer is responsible for lease payments during shipping. This would remove the people gaming the system from ED.

Issue would be US customs as I believe BMW NA imports the ED car as used. History of ED programs dates back to the German government sponsoring tourism with the program. People learned how to game the system, wreaked cars during ED knowing the VPC would repair to factory new standards.

Based on that it sounds like BMW customers ruined it for everybody else.

[GlazierGlaze]

For those saying most people won't switch brands, or that if you can afford a P-Car, why even bother, you're missing the point.

The ED experience at Porsche means you're spending $150K+ (Assuming you're not buying a base model 911). I don't have that kind of money. But I do have 2015 to 2017 GT3 money. So when I say this accelerates me going to Porsche, that's 100% the case for alot of enthusiasts in my position. There are a lot of people on this forum who can afford a new $90K M3 or a slightly used GT3 or Turbo S. Those of us who were hanging out waiting to see what the new M3 would look like, who also like to travel, the ED program ending just put a massive nail in the coffin for us. The new M3 looks like ass based on renders, I was purely waiting it out to see if it would grow on me with the intention of taking my wife to Europe for two weeks while driving around my new car. That was probably 50% of the reason I've hung on to seeing what happens with the G80. Now it's gone.

Also, like it or not, the brand is changing. Designs are clearly transitioning to appeasing the consumers in China, RWD and manual are going all but extinct, the line up continues to bloat in stupid ways, as does the overall dimensions of cars. M has been watered down to the point where ever model has a sub-branded M model. The ED program dying is another example that this is not the BMW that a lot of us found synonymous with enthusiast.

[basscadet]

BMW has a right to be profitable, in fact it's the reason they exist: to make money.

Why do we have to shame BMW for doing what is smart for their business? If you want a fantastic road experience in Europe go to the Nordschliefe and whip a Renault Clio around the course for a few hundred euro. That will be far more thrilling that sitting around in traffic outside Munich.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by GlazierGlaze

For those saying most people won't switch brands, or that if you can afford a P-Car, why even bother, you're missing the point.

The ED experience at Porsche means you're spending $150K+ (Assuming you're not buying a base model 911). I don't have that kind of money. But I do have 2015 to 2017 GT3 money. So when I say this accelerates me going to Porsche, that's 100% the case for alot of enthusiasts in my position. There are a lot of people on this forum who can afford a new $90K M3 or a slightly used GT3 or Turbo S. Those of us who were hanging out waiting to see what the new M3 would look like, who also like to travel, the ED program ending just put a massive nail in the coffin for us. The new M3 looks like ass based on renders, I was purely waiting it out to see if it would grow on me with the intention of taking my wife to Europe for two weeks while driving around my new car. That was probably 50% of the reason I've hung on to seeing what happens with the G80. Now it's gone.

Also, like it or not, the brand is changing. Designs are clearly transitioning to appeasing the consumers in China, RWD and manual are going all but extinct, the line up continues to bloat in stupid ways, as does the overall dimensions of cars. M has been watered down to the point where ever model has a sub-branded M model. The ED program dying is another example that this is not the BMW that a lot of us found synonymous with enthusiast.

All of this. Don't forget that Mercedes ED is alive and well. I'm considering a Merc or Volvo SUV for ED when our X3 lease is up (family car).

I've been looking a 991s and even considered a 997 turbo and GTI manual as a daily.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by basscadet

BMW has a right to be profitable, in fact it's the reason they exist: to make money.

Agreed that companies need to make a profit, but ED needs to be viewed as a marketing expense. Remember the Pareto 80:20 rule, as the forum members who are either serial leasers, M owners or 7/8 series customers, as it's this small group who drives the majority of BMW AG/BMW NA profits. It's not the 1 series or X1 customer, as BMW is alienating their high value customers. Time will tell if this move will come back to haunt them.

I wouldn't consider ED dead forever, as BMW NA marketing programs are always changing . Watch world wide deliveries fall off a cliff at the Welt, as Europe's recession is going to be very painful, worse than 2008. Europeans will reconsider about spending close to € 1000 for a Welt delivery. The mothership in Munich would then love to have the 500 BMW NA delivery's back per year which customers are spending money in the Welt gift shop, ect. Your removing affluent tourists from the Welt as a result by killing ED.

Personally, I don't see me visiting the Welt ever again, as I would visit in between ED's, getting excited for the next one.

[keylime503]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

All of this. Don't forget that Mercedes ED is alive and well. I'm considering a Merc or Volvo SUV for ED when our X3 lease is up (family car).

I've been looking a 991s and even considered a 997 turbo and GTI manual as a daily.

Aren't Mercedes SUVs all built in Alabama? Not sure how an ED would work for a merc SUV.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Based on that it sounds like BMW customers ruined it for everybody else.

Right?

My thoughts...

[paulso]

Originally Posted by keylime503

Aren't Mercedes SUVs all built in Alabama? Not sure how an ED would work for a merc SUV.

Also if you lease a Mercedes, and want to do ED apparently you can only spend a maximum of one month in Europe which will certainly suck for some people. Unfortunately those looking at the c63 will only be able to get the coupe as the sedan is assembled stateside.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by keylime503

Aren't Mercedes SUVs all built in Alabama? Not sure how an ED would work for a merc SUV.

Nope. Here are the vehicles that are available for Mercedes ED. Plenty of SUVs and everything else


https://www.mbusa.com/en/european-de...-program/build

Contrary to popular belief. People in other parts of the world also like SUVS.

[FreudeamFahren18]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Nope. Here are the vehicles that are available for Mercedes ED. Plenty of SUVs and everything else


https://www.mbusa.com/en/european-de...-program/build

Contrary to popular belief. People in other parts of the world also like SUVS.

It's only GLC that is available for ED. The rest of Merc SUVs are assembled in Alabama.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by FreudeamFahren18

It's only GLC that is available for ED. The rest of Merc SUVs are assembled in Alabama.

GLA and GLC. Either way there are options

[goku7]

Originally Posted by FreudeamFahren18

It's only GLC that is available for ED. The rest of Merc SUVs are assembled in Alabama.

Wow my next car is going to be a merc then even though I think their cars are a snooze fest but luxurious

[keylime503]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

GLA and GLC. Either way there are options

GLA isn't an SUV though. It's a hatchback.

So basically of their SUV offerings GLC and the G wagon are made in Europe and available of ED. GLE and GLS are built in Alabama.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by GlazierGlaze

Those of us who were hanging out waiting to see what the new M3 would look like, who also like to travel, the ED program ending just put a massive nail in the coffin for us. The new M3 looks like ass based on renders, I was purely waiting it out to see if it would grow on me with the intention of taking my wife to Europe for two weeks while driving around my new car. That was probably 50% of the reason I've hung on to seeing what happens with the G80. Now it's gone.

Also, like it or not, the brand is changing. Designs are clearly transitioning to appeasing the consumers in China, RWD and manual are going all but extinct, the line up continues to bloat in stupid ways, as does the overall dimensions of cars. M has been watered down to the point where ever model has a sub-branded M model. The ED program dying is another example that this is not the BMW that a lot of us found synonymous with enthusiast.

Same in here. Waited for the new M3, thought that the grille is a joke, then realized is not. Wanted a nice, somewhat modern but loyal to the heritage design elements (corona rings, hofmeister kink, proper grills, no hoodline, etc.).
BMW decided to keep this monstruosity and after that I was reading articles about the chief design “defending” the design. What an idiot that Van Hooydonk is!
But, at this point I wish BMW good luck with this one, I won’t be the joke of my friends or my street and I would not buy something that “will grow on me”. I am tired of “growing on me” acceptance, mediocre design and poor interior design not to mention the permanent decrease of quality in materials like lack of (or plastic covered) rear bench entrance sides, cheap saggy cloth over the panoramic roof or pantyhose covered headliner. Yet, the prices are getting higher.
I want a car that excites me when I am looking at it, that I will feel proud and happy about it, a car that represents my taste, my choice, my character. Accepting something because I am a fan is too big of a stretch for now. I did it in the past but at this point the BMW image is so generic, blended, washed and idiotic, that I can not see why I will spend this kind of cash on a Subaru front and Honda rear vehicle.
The ED killed it for me too. I was ready to push for an ED this year but this global situation screwed it for me. Now, That “must be done” experience is taken away too.
Screw that.

[Habber]

It would be cool if they replaced it with delivery to one of the BMW Performance Tracks in the USA.

[Cloudplay]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

No discount and the Porsche HQ isn't nearly as cool as the Welt. Stuttgart is more of a business town too, less stuff to do than Munich and surrounding areas.

For Porsche ED you 100% want to go with Leipzig and drive around on their track for a handful of laps (obviously not with your own new car, but an equivalent model).

[adc]

Originally Posted by basscadet

BMW has a right to be profitable, in fact it's the reason they exist: to make money.

Why do we have to shame BMW for doing what is smart for their business? If you want a fantastic road experience in Europe go to the Nordschliefe and whip a Renault Clio around the course for a few hundred euro. That will be far more thrilling that sitting around in traffic outside Munich.

Renting a race or track prepped car on the Nordschleife is much more expensive than you make it sound. 10 laps with insurance is over $1,000 - or more, depending on the car you want.

I know because I’ve done it in 2018.

[basscadet]

Originally Posted by adc

Renting a race or track prepped car on the Nordschleife is much more expensive than you make it sound. 10 laps with insurance is over $1,000 - or more, depending on the car you want.

I know because I’ve done it in 2018.

Apologies if I tried to make it sound cheap, it isn't, but for people who willingly plop-down thousands of USD dollars for silly M-packages on garden variety, non-LSD-equipped BMW's that have the same motor of a X3.....it's cheap.

(Yes, I have an axe to grind.)

[paulso]

Originally Posted by basscadet

BMW has a right to be profitable, in fact it's the reason they exist: to make money.

Why do we have to shame BMW for doing what is smart for their business? If you want a fantastic road experience in Europe go to the Nordschliefe and whip a Renault Clio around the course for a few hundred euro. That will be far more thrilling that sitting around in traffic outside Munich.

I like to track my car as often as I can too, but I don't see in any way how you can compare driving around the Nurburgring in a Clio with picking up a brand new car at the Welt and driving it throughout Europe. In 2018 I put over 6000 miles on the car driving through Germany, Austria, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia, and that was an experience I will never forget. As an example I remember driving the Grossglockner pass just like it was yesterday, and stopping what felt like every 5 minutes to admire the beautiful scenery. I have zero recollection of the last time I tracked my car, and that was not that long ago.

To each their own I suppose, but having done ED before I know which one I would pick given the chance again.

[sq86]

Late to the commentary party on this one but this is such disappointing news to hear. I'm glad I was able to do my last two cars via Euro delivery (pic from my most recent ED). The 2016 incentive changes definitely killed it along with the unwillingness of the dealers to process them. I was told (pre-2016) that dealers didn't like to handle an ED because it was more paperwork for the same or less money. I'm sure that got only worse since then. I, too,was looking forward to ordering my next car (M2C) and picking it up via ED next year but that's out the window. Maybe it will come back in a few years but I'm not sure I'll want any of their cars by then to be honest.

The bickering that's ensued in this thread is annoying but doesn't surprise me given who the protagonist is. I hate how some members always have to take the devil's advocate/minority side of the argument relentlessly. It makes me not look forward to reading the commentary sometimes because it's too predictable what will end up happening.

[karussell]

When i found out the news I called up a dealer and got an M2C allocation for ED in September. Might as well go all out for the last time with a BMW. some old timers might know me. I set up group deliveries in 2014 and 2016. Anyone else planning the same? I'm going to throw together my favorite tracks. Its an M car. thats where it belongs. i can get track insurance since BMW seems to be completely off their rocker about what that means any more. Completely disappointed in the brand. This will be my last new BMW unless they bring the program back.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by sq86

Late to the commentary party on this one but this is such disappointing news to hear. I'm glad I was able to do my last two cars via Euro delivery (pic from my most recent ED). The 2016 incentive changes definitely killed it along with the unwillingness of the dealers to process them. I was told (pre-2016) that dealers didn't like to handle an ED because it was more paperwork for the same or less money. I'm sure that got only worse since then. I, too,was looking forward to ordering my next car (M2C) and picking it up via ED next year but that's out the window. Maybe it will come back in a few years but I'm not sure I'll want any of their cars by then to be honest.

The bickering that's ensued in this thread is annoying but doesn't surprise me given who the protagonist is. I hate how some members always have to take the devil's advocate/minority side of the argument relentlessly. It makes me not look forward to reading the commentary sometimes because it's too predictable what will end up happening.

....So in short, only one viewpoint should be tolerated? That only sounds reasonable to you because you aren't the minority on this particular issue. The moment you are it becomes a different story altogether. Balance in any discussion is the key to constructive discourse.