[Nkc]

Bro what are you smoking and please pass me the contact

[upstatedoc]

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by grimlock

Some people have lower standards, so long as the kid is healthy, you don't have to live rich lifestyles etc., and some are perferctionists or some can't forget the pain of their own childhood and would not accept a repeat of it.
Something must be "corrected" first if it is ever to be done.

Different people have different standards, for sure. A situation that some are content with would be very disappointing to others.

Some out there have had less than ideal childhoods, but despite that, perpetuate the cycle with their own kids, and so on. I'm not saying that they are deliberately "choosing" to repeat mistakes, I'm sure they do want their kids to have a better experience, but they are certainly not choosing to do whatever it takes to avoid those mistakes either.

Choosing to step up to the plate and say, no more of this, the buck stops with me, is the exact opposite of a "selfish" act, IMHO. It should be celebrated, not questioned. It provides a better service to society than the opposite, where you kinda want things to be better, but dont bother to take deliberate efforts to get there, and thus end up creating the 4th generation in a row where a kid grows up with an absentee father (or whatever the case may be).

(not saying parents on this forum are in that category; but there are many out there who do have kids, who probably shouldn't. Society should spend more efforts on stopping that, than convincing others to have kids if they are not committed to it as they need to be in order to do a good job. It's not as if the planet is trending towards a surplus of resources and a shortage of consumers of those resources)

[Billup]

@grimlock
Yeah, not drunk enough to comprehend that whole statement.

Nothing against you, just too many statements in context that aren't exactly making sense to me.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Because you will never care about someone elses kid like you would your own.

To give an example (as people who dont have kids like to compare it to having a dog) - when someone shows you a picture/vid of their dog doing something cute you just smile and say aww cute dog but dont give a crap. But when your dog does something cute you think it is the most awesome thing in the world.

My dog is an idiot.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

My dog is an idiot.

looks equally as dumb as mine:

[Mr Tonka]

Raising.... or lowering the bar. haha

[ddk632]

This thread has gone to the doghouse...

[grimlock]

Shit's awesome

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Raising.... or lowering the bar. haha

After all of these pages of hard debate, this one post has brought me to my final conclusion....


This is why people WANT dogs.

[Nkc]

Took my son to swim for the first time. At first he had this confused look like wtf is this and after about 15mins he started laughing and having fun. What a kickass moment.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by grimlock

We need to breakdown 'selfishness' into two components: self-interest, and social/reciprical -"altruistic"- behavior.
Everyone thinks they are not selfish and everyone else is, more or less.
人不為己 天誅地滅
he who not for himself, heavens kill earth extinct
serious, this is a saying.. it sounds cruel and totally selfish/immoral, but I have come to have an appreciation of it.

A person cannot completely be selfish because it would be against his best interest. Why? Because of society - where reciprical behavior dictates interaction between people.
An asshole would be left alone, and if you're a hermit you can't be an asshole because there is no one to be an asshole to!
The hermit shows clearily complete selfishness is not immoral, wrong, or suboptimal... unless you think the hermit cares about the environment and CO2 or whatever.

Sorry, a long-winded way of saying you can't accuse someone of selfishness without saying exactly how and where he is being selfish in the societal sense - and that is an imposible task.
All you have is the flimsy notion that children=human's responsibility to continue hereto unbroken continuation of dna, or children=blight on Gaia's pristine beauty, or perpetuation of eternal Buddhist suffering.

Not true I am an asshole and they are plenty of people I can be an asshole towards!

[ItsHectic]

My plan for the future: "No kids, just coupes"

[tomwac]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

What if your kid turns out like one of my family members kid who has this face I just want to punch every time I see the little fucker? I mean seriously though, everyone thinks their kids will be amazing, but I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that got dealt a shitty hand. Another thing to consider.

...

[tomwac]

Originally Posted by Billup

I'm sorry, but I really like how you say "He let me start working again".

+1 ... sounds a bit weird...

[Devious21]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

What if your kid turns out like one of my family members kid who has this face I just want to punch every time I see the little fucker? I mean seriously though, everyone thinks their kids will be amazing, but I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that got dealt a shitty hand. Another thing to consider.

Stop making more "in the way" people.

[Marsden]

Originally Posted by coh4777

No offense but an underachieving son whom you fear may physically attack you is not exactly selling the case for having kids.

Originally Posted by kevinbahnz

yeah, i hesitated a little before I typed it. you didnt notice?

You totally rock btw. Brutal honesty and subtle humor, what's not to like?

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

It's been my experience that the people who are the most likely to call you selfish for not having kids are also the people most likely to bring up this point.

Amazing how they cannot see the irony there. Breeding your own nurse that you expect will then be obligated to change your Depends when you are 90 (regardless of whatever else they got going on by then) is not selfish, but choosing to not add another drain on the planet's shrinking resources is ??

Right as rain. Geez, only 7.5 billion humanoids on the planet, it would be selfish not to add a few more amirite?

http://nymag.com/news/features/67024/

[John 070]

This has turned into a lease vs. buy thread. There actually is only one right answer in theory. But if you follow the thread, the tables are completely turned on those whom I would consider in the right. E90 often goes that way.

[Devious21]

Originally Posted by grimlock

We need to breakdown 'selfishness' into two components: self-interest, and social/reciprical -"altruistic"- behavior.
Everyone thinks they are not selfish and everyone else is, more or less.
人不為己 天誅地滅
he who not for himself, heavens kill earth extinct
serious, this is a saying.. it sounds cruel and totally selfish/immoral, but I have come to have an appreciation of it.

A person cannot completely be selfish because it would be against his best interest. Why? Because of society - where reciprical behavior dictates interaction between people.
An asshole would be left alone, and if you're a hermit you can't be an asshole because there is no one to be an asshole to!
The hermit shows clearily complete selfishness is not immoral, wrong, or suboptimal... unless you think the hermit cares about the environment and CO2 or whatever.

Sorry, a long-winded way of saying you can't accuse someone of selfishness without saying exactly how and where he is being selfish in the societal sense - and that is an imposible task.
All you have is the flimsy notion that children=human's responsibility to continue hereto unbroken continuation of dna, or children=blight on Gaia's pristine beauty, or perpetuation of eternal Buddhist suffering.

Excellent point. I agree.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Because you will never care about someone elses kid like you would your own.

To give an example (as people who dont have kids like to compare it to having a dog) - when someone shows you a picture/vid of their dog doing something cute you just smile and say aww cute dog but dont give a crap. But when your dog does something cute you think it is the most awesome thing in the world.

Difference is I like dogs. My dog, your dog, stray dogs. If someone comes over to my house and says they are bringing their kids I'm like FML! When someone brings their dog it's awesome! Oh yeah and if one day I decide I now hate dogs I can get rid of my dog. I can literally give it away and go back to a dog free life. If you do that with a kid you end up in jail.

So yeah dogs > kids.

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by Devious21

[carve]

Reviving an old thread here. So, some acquaintances of mine had a baby six months ago and they finally came out of hiding for a day. The guy looked OK, but the woman looked like she aged about a decade. There was a lot of "bitching and backpedaling"...i.e. "oh my god- it's so much harder than I expected (REALLY- HOLY CRAP!)...I haven't had more than two continuous hours sleep in months....my tits feel like zits that need to be popped etc etc...but it's sooooo worth it".

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm sure she gets some oxytocin and loves her baby, but that lifestyle, combined with them almost completely giving up on all the stuff they used to enjoy, sounds like misery. I did some googling of "I regret having kids" and "I regret not having kids". Guess which one was an order of magnitude more common. People just won't say it unless they're anonymous. The stories...just awful. Read some in the comments here There's also a cognitive dissonance where people delude themselves into being happier with a choice they can't undo.


No kids for me