[GoingTooFast]

[GoingTooFast]

And so this is the Alfa 4C's history... price wise it is comparable to the base Cayman BUT performance wise it can embarrass and beat the much more expensive and powerful Cayman S (and also the E92 M3 by a wider margin still). Add to that the fact that its fuel-efficiency can't be matched by none of the competition and... well, I won't give you my opinion, I'm only presenting you the facts:




Judge by yourselves!

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by johanness

What happened to this? Follow through with this - PLEASE. It's sickening that you write this 4 pages ago, and then NOT follow through?? Do yourself a favor and STFU already!

[pgviper]

Looked into this car a bit today.

Starting price of $54k?!?!?!?!?! Does anyone else think that's insane.

Just makes me want to get a stingray that much more.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Looked into this car a bit today.

Starting price of $54k?!?!?!?!?! Does anyone else think that's insane.

Just makes me want to get a stingray that much more.

The fact is you can't find a carbon fiber chassis for less... but you can find it for a LOT more.

How important is that fact, and what it represents dynamically, to you?!

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

The fact is you can't find a carbon fiber chassis for less... but you can find it for a LOT more.

How important is that fact, and what it represents dynamically, to you?!

Isn't the i3 a carbon fiber chassis lol.

I get what your saying. My thinking is that I don't really care about one fact imparticular about a car. I care about how it all comes together. I think if they want a car to be competitive in the american market they need to do more than just sell it as a "carbon fiber chassis".

Still looks ... interesting

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Isn't the i3 a carbon fiber chassis lol.

I get what your saying. My thinking is that I don't really care about one fact imparticular about a car.I care about how it all comes together. I think if they want a car to be competitive in the american market they need to do more than just sell it as a "carbon fiber chassis".

Still looks ... interesting

How it comes together... well, it can beat a 981 Cayman S. What is the Cayman S price?!

And I'm not even considering the ceramic brakes price, the PASM price, the PTV limited slip differential price, the Sport Chrono Plus Package price, 20" wheels with wider tires price, the PDK price... all the indispensable things for the 981 Cayman S to be close to the Alfa 4C's performance.

Would you buy such an expensive Porsche instead if you could? Why?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Would you buy such an expensive Porsche instead if you could? Why?

Yep, at least they hold their value, have a full dealer network, proven reliability and first class safety, not to mention the choice of a manual, even if it's slower. The Boxster S is significantly faster around the Ring than the Alfa, and the Cayman is faster yet and likely comparably priced, like for like, in the US to the 4C and cheaper than the LE.

However, things are shaping up to where it looks unlikely that we'll get the 4C in the US, and even if we do it will not be the car that the ROW is getting. The upcoming turbo 4 981 is interesting, as it will likely be priced between the current base and S cars, or replace the base model, while likely offering similar or better performance than the 4C.

I think the larger problem for many US consumers, and this is true for the 4C and the Cayman too, is that for numbers only, a C7 will destroy either car for less money.

[jsublime]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I think the larger problem for many US consumers, and this is true for the 4C and the Cayman too, is that for numbers only, a C7 will destroy either car for less money.

Well a C7 also destroys m3/4/5/6 considering the price but people are still lining up to buy them.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by jsublime

Well a C7 also destroys m3/4/5/6 considering the price but people are still lining up to buy them.

At least those have a back seat and an actual interior. The issue the 4C has, much like the Elise/Exige before it is that it's trying to be a drivers car, first and foremost. I like the approach of the Alfa, but do have a hard time with the fact that it's slower than the Cayman S on a track or in a straight line and gives up a lot in terms of comfort and practicality.

But I haven't driven one, and hope to be able to, one day, if Mr Cardigan can get all of his proverbial poop into one sock.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The Boxster S is significantly faster around the Ring than the Alfa, and the Cayman is faster yet and likely comparably priced, like for like, in the US to the 4C and cheaper than the LE.

As always you can't stop reading my posts and as always you are a BIG source of misinformation which is understandable for someone who owns and drives an automatic X1 and yet talks big time about manual driver's cars.

l guess that by taking the trouble to show the facts about what you say I'm treating everybody else like stupid people... if I am, I apologize as it's not my intention at all.

The 981 Cayman S and Boxster S are not faster than the Alfa 4C (let alone the base Cayman) around the N'ring. The Cayman S was one second slower and the Boxster S set the same time as the Alfa 4C - 8:04 min - all driven by the same driver and Nurburgring circuit specialist, Horst von Saurma:

[Red Bread]

Not discounting HvS, but the simple fact is that the 981s in Walter Rohlr's hands does it 9 seconds faster. Is WR that much better, or was HvS holding back?

Show me one piece of misinformation I have put in your stupid thread, oh great purveyor of "facts".

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

As always you can't stop reading my posts and as always you are a BIG source of misinformation which is understandable for someone who owns and drives an automatic X1 and yet talks big time about manual driver's cars.

l guess that by taking the trouble to show the facts about what you say I'm treating everybody else like stupid people... if I am, I apologize as it's not my intention at all.

The 981 Cayman S and Boxster S are not faster than the Alfa 4C (let alone the base Cayman) around the N'ring. The Cayman S was one second slower and the Boxster S set the same time as the Alfa 4C - 8:04 min - all driven by the same driver and Nurburgring circuit specialist, Horst von Saurma:

Scumbag poster: resorts to ad hominems, denies his intentions immediately afterward.

Also, ONE SECOND on the 'Ring, used as a comparison regarding laptimes in the 8:00+ range is pointless. You could chalk that up to a head or tailwind on a straight, minor temperature differences, a slightly botched corner, etc.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

You could chalk that up to a head or tailwind on a straight, minor temperature differences, a slightly botched corner, etc.

Or just a roll of gaffer's tape on the hood.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Scumbag poster: resorts to ad hominems, denies his intentions immediately afterward.

Also, ONE SECOND on the 'Ring, used as a comparison regarding laptimes in the 8:00+ range is pointless. You could chalk that up to a head or tailwind on a straight, minor temperature differences, a slightly botched corner, etc.

Maybe you thought I was talking about you... I swore I didn't even remember you.

The fact is the 981 Cayman S and the Boxster S are WAY more powerful and expensive than the Alfa 4C but they are NOT faster around the N'ring. Period.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Maybe you thought I was talking about you... I swore I didn't even remember you.

The fact is the 981 Cayman S and the Boxster S are WAY more powerful and expensive than the Alfa 4C but they are NOT faster around the N'ring. Period.

I was referring to your ad hominem against Red Bread; debunking his opinion based on arbitrary factors like what he's currently driving, which you then followed up with by saying you have no intention of insulting anyone here. I'm just dropping my $0.02 from the sidelines.

And the laptimes are surprising. Yes, the Alfa makes due with much less horsepower (and a favorable 900lb weight difference), so to keep up on a power course like the 'Ring is impressive. I'm not debunking that. I'm just saying that a single second on the 'Ring is not a qualifier that it's any faster or slower. That's ridiculous.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Or just a roll of gaffer's tape on the hood.

But without optional ceramic brakes, optional electromagnetic dampers, aka PASM, and 20" optional wheels.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

I was referring to your ad hominem against Red Bread; debunking his opinion based on arbitrary factors like what he's currently driving, which you then followed up with by saying you have no intention of insulting anyone here. I'm just dropping my $0.02 from the sidelines.

Look, I'm here to talk about cars I couldn't care less about red bread or what it represents because everything he says is destructive and most of the times misinformative... and trust me I have been sympathetic here.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

But without optional ceramic brakes, optional electromagnetic dampers, aka PASM, and 20" optional wheels.

Don't worry, all of those things will come to the 4C in time and should make it faster than the 7:55 posted for a Cayman S. It's impressive, but as stated for what feels like the 100th time, our US version, if we get it at all, will not be as light or fast as this, so it's slightly favorable pricing to a Cayman S is not as appealing if we were just getting the ROW version.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Look, I'm here to talk about cars I couldn't care less about red bread or what it represents because everything he says is destructive and most of the times misinformative... and trust me I have been sympathetic here.

You're such a noble soul. I have yet to see something pointed out to me as less than honest.

In summary:

1. The US version will be 150-300 pounds heavier than the tested models
2. The Cayman S has posted a 7:55 to the 4C's 8:04
3. The US distribution is in question due to Chrysler's desire to pursue an IPO, meaning Alfa may very well not make a comeback to the US market

If those things are seen as negative or destructive, rather than just simple (and here I laugh) facts, so be it.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

And the laptimes are surprising. Yes, the Alfa makes due with much less horsepower (and a favorable 900lb weight difference), so to keep up on a power course like the 'Ring is impressive. I'm not debunking that. I'm just saying that a single second on the 'Ring is not a qualifier that it's any faster or slower. That's ridiculous.

I was talking about N'ring laptimes... and having to explain that the only possible fair comparison you can have between different car performances around the same circuit is at least to have them driven by the same person is treating other people like they were stupid because this is plain OBVIOUS!!! That's what I was reffering to... I don't want to treat you like you were stupid.

What is ridiculous is to compare car performances so close as these when the cars are driven by different drivers... having the same driver is a sine qua none condition for such a comparison to have at least some meaning. And, in that condition the 981 Cayman S PDK is slower than the Boxster S PDK and the Alfa 4C by one second around the N'ring.

Also, if that is not enough for you... you should already know that the quoted 0-62 mph time for the Alfa 4C is 4.5 seconds, which is already faster than either the 981 Cayman S PDK or the Boxster S PDK.

So, where is the doubt?!

[johanness]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Look, I'm here to talk about cars I couldn't care less about red bread or what it represents

a) Red Bread is not an 'it'

b) Reminder:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Thank you all for your patience mainly the moderators because probably you were under some pressure from some users to shut me up... as you see, you did the right thing because I'll shut myself up. Nothing worth sharing now...