[BMW269]

After Subaru BRZ hate creating, now Alfa 4C hate creating. What is next? New Nissan Silvia that will be presented next month?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Levi

After Subaru BRZ hate creating, now Alfa 4C hate creating. What is next? New Nissan Silvia that will be presented next month?

Hey Levi.

It is a shame what happened to this one too.
You, as thread originator or OP, can request the thread be closed.

Creepy thread, to say the least.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Hey Levi.

It is a shame what happened to this one too.
You, as thread originator or OP, can request the thread be closed.

Creepy thread, to say the least.

It would be fair for him to get banned from BP just as I got banned from 1M forum for saying negative things about N54Tu in an M car and from M3/M4 forum for continuously bringing up the V6 story.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

After Subaru BRZ hate creating, now Alfa 4C hate creating. What is next? New Nissan Silvia that will be presented next month?

I don't know what you stand for... if you are a hater or not but, in any case, for someone who was strongly claiming over the german car forum that the upcoming M3/M4 would surely have a V6 engine you should do like me after all the Kobayashi speculation I carried on... the least you could do in the name of some opinion credibility that you may have left is to strictly talk about some car facts ONLY.

That's what I've been trying to do... but there's always an hater more concerned about myself than with cars. Actually, they must love me because they keep coming back to my posts no matter how much despise I can give them, so I will just ignore it or should I say them?!

Meanwhile, a car such the Alfa 4C that can beat much more expensive and powerful propositions like the 981 Cayman S/Boxster S or the E92 M3, naturally can give rise to some hate among those who look at their cars as extensions of their egos or that have some money to loose because of it.

The Toyobaru and the Alfa 4C are two cornerstones in the car industry, it's a fact... maybe it's because of that they are causing all this reaction.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Levi

It would be fair for him to get banned from BP just as I got banned from 1M forum for saying negative things about N54Tu in an M car and from M3/M4 forum for continuously bringing up the V6 story.

You can ask the moderator to CLOSE or even DELETE your / this thread.

[GoingTooFast]

Besides the handy roll of duct tape to reduce drag, people are starting questioning how the Alfa 4C's ride height looks suspiciously low too. The fact is Alfa Romeo was experimenting with the two available rim sizes combination for the production model to set the lap time record around the N'ring. It turned out that they've discovered the Alfa 4C was faster with the lower size wheels (17" front and 18" rear - 2nd picture below) than with the more aesthetically pleasing bigger wheels (18" front and 19" rear - 1st picture below). One of the reasons for such outcome is the fact that the car seats indeed lower with the smaller wheels. I know for a fact how dramatic the difference can look like between 17" and 18" wheels size because prior to my 1M I owned two Caymans, the first had the standard 17" wheels and the second the optional 18" wheels all around (you could have them on the optional 19" size also). With the 17" wheels not only the Cayman looked wider but more notorious still, it looked strikingly lower. You can see the same effect with the Alfa 4C which is even more pronounced because the 1st picture is from a static Alfa 4C and the second is a picture of the Alfa 4C under severe corner load:

[GoingTooFast]

You can see it better with a picture of the static Alfa 4C on smaller wheels:

[GoingTooFast]

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Actually, they must love me because they keep coming back to my posts no matter how much despise I can give them, so I will just ignore it or should I say them?!

LOL, I keep coming back because I created this thread and every day I get about 5 notifications that somebody posted in this thread. Sure everybody is following this thread not because they "love" you, but because they want to see where this dumbness is going to. At the cinema you watch the film to the end even if you see how bad it is.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

LOL, I keep coming back because I created this thread and every day I get about 5 notifications that somebody posted in this thread. Sure everybody is following this thread not because they "love" you, but because they want to see where this dumbness is going to. At the cinema you watch the film to the end even if you see how bad it is.

You can disable the notifications or just ignore them as you can ignore me... When I don't like something I stay way from it, like with cars... as far as I know no one here is paying a ticket to justify reading my posts till the end.

It only can be love!

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

How it comes together... well, it can beat a 981 Cayman S. What is the Cayman S price?!

And I'm not even considering the ceramic brakes price, the PASM price, the PTV limited slip differential price, the Sport Chrono Plus Package price, 20" wheels with wider tires price, the PDK price... all the indispensable things for the 981 Cayman S to be close to the Alfa 4C's performance.

Would you buy such an expensive Porsche instead if you could? Why?

I would never buy such an expensive Porsche. I just wasn't expecting the 4C to be so expensive. And yes "HOW IT COMES TOGETHER" is what I care about. $35k camaro 1le would smack both of those across the track. When will german and euro car makers recognize that if they want to build a succesful sports car, you need to start taking into consideration the price escpecially when there are more capable cars for less.

Originally Posted by Red Bread

At least those have a back seat and an actual interior. The issue the 4C has, much like the Elise/Exige before it is that it's trying to be a drivers car, first and foremost. I like the approach of the Alfa, but do have a hard time with the fact that it's slower than the Cayman S on a track or in a straight line and gives up a lot in terms of comfort and practicality.

But I haven't driven one, and hope to be able to, one day, if Mr Cardigan can get all of his proverbial poop into one sock.

Have you even seen the interior of a C7? Comments like that mean you clearly haven't. Drivers car... hahaha thats laughable. I haven't read one review about the 4C that says its a drivers car. Granted I have never driven it myself so obviously everyone could be wrong but I have read multiple reviews stating that it tries to be a drivers car but is unsuccesful at doing so.

[Cup o' Joe]

I really like the exterior, but the interior looks like an afterthought.

"Oh, right, we need to put something INSIDE the car..."

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by pgviper

I would never buy such an expensive Porsche. I just wasn't expecting the 4C to be so expensive. And yes "HOW IT COMES TOGETHER" is what I care about. $35k camaro 1le would smack both of those across the track. When will german and euro car makers recognize that if they want to build a succesful sports car, you need to start taking into consideration the price escpecially when there are more capable cars for less.



Have you even seen the interior of a C7? Comments like that mean you clearly haven't. Drivers car... hahaha thats laughable. I haven't read one review about the 4C that says its a drivers car. Granted I have never driven it myself so obviously everyone could be wrong but I have read multiple reviews stating that it tries to be a drivers car but is unsuccesful at doing so.

The interior comment was in reference to the 4C, not the C7, stop acting like GTF.

The 4C is clearly geared towards being a drivers car, at least it certainly isn't trying to be a GT.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The interior comment was in reference to the 4C, not the C7, stop acting like GTF.

The 4C is clearly geared towards being a drivers car, at least it certainly isn't trying to be a GT.

Not trying to be like anyone...

I think there are some hurt feelings going on in this thread. Sorry, but I simply misread your comment.

Anyway, 4C seems like a giant rip off. If it was packing at least the horsepower of a 370z then I get that but with the HP of a gti, I just don't see how you can justify the price tag (exaggeration so relax).

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Not trying to be like anyone...

I think there are some hurt feelings going on in this thread. Sorry, but I simply misread your comment.

Anyway, 4C seems like a giant rip off. If it was packing at least the horsepower of a 370z then I get that but with the HP of a gti, I just don't see how you can justify the price tag (exaggeration so relax).

Sorry, should have rolled out the .

I don't have a dog in this hunt, so no feelings are hurt. I initially started looking at the BRZ, with the hopes that it would get an STI version, but have paid close attention to the 4C, as on the surface, it's carbon construction and good power to weight numbers are very appealing. Like GTF, I'd rather have a lighter car than simply a powerful one, so the absolute number doesn't really matter to me.

But the important thing for many of us reading this, those in the US at least, is that Alfa has both said our version will be at least 150 pounds heavier (with one rumor of 300+ pounds) to provide for better crash ratings, and further, there's still an extremely high chance that we'll never get the 4C in the US at all due to the current attempts of Chrysler to offer an IPO, which would create problems with Alfa coming back here at all.

[gonzo]

^
But they did the PowerPoint presentation and everything?
I thought they had it all figured out.

Capital FAIL for their beginners business model.
Embarrassing.
That good ol' Italian philosophy..."why worry about things..enjoy today"

[bjayfan]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Anyway, 4C seems like a giant rip off. If it was packing at least the horsepower of a 370z then I get that but with the HP of a gti, I just don't see how you can justify the price tag (exaggeration so relax).

Seems to be trying to do what Lotus did way back when. Very light with exceptional handling, yet compromised on most everything else.

It will fill a niche, maybe.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by pgviper

I would never buy such an expensive Porsche. I just wasn't expecting the 4C to be so expensive. And yes "HOW IT COMES TOGETHER" is what I care about. $35k camaro 1le would smack both of those across the track. When will german and euro car makers recognize that if they want to build a succesful sports car, you need to start taking into consideration the price escpecially when there are more capable cars for less.

No one is forcing you to buy an Alfa 4C if you don't believe in its capabilities. At least its claimed 0-62 mph time is so ever slightly lower at 4.5 s than the Camaro 1le 0-60 mph time which is 4.5 s... or if you will it's at least the same time.

As for the price, you have to realize that lightness adds a lot of money to the price tag, be it in Europe or in the US, and for you to understand the benefit of it, how it makes the driver to be intimately connected to the car as if it was a bionic extension of your body and hence making of it a truly driver's car you really need to drive a lightweight car with a comparable performance to the Alfa 4C... or better still, the Alfa Romeo 4C itself.

Of course that, I could add the huge benefits in terms of fuel consumption and emissions but you being an american much probably wouldn't care. However, this is something that concerns me as an european because 1 gallon of petrol is WAY too expensive in the old continent as it is a Camaro because of its big engine and emissions.

For sure when you compare the Alfa 4C against a 981 Porsche Cayman S, a Boxster S or a E92 M3, which the Alfa 4C can beat performance wise, you realize that at 54000$ the 4C is the less expensive of them all, and I mean, by a HUGE margin.

As for the Camaro the only car I've ever owned that more closely can resemble it for the big torque and weight is my BMW 1M... and all I can tell you is I want to trade it for the Alfa 4C and I'm waiting for the dealer answer to close the deal.

[gonzo]

As such a concerned "european", snarf, regarding fuel consumption and emissions, what in the world are you doing driving a 1m .

Should you not be:
A. Walking
B. Riding a bike.
C. Riding a motorized cycle.
D. Taking public transportation.
E. Driving a hybrid.
F. Driving a ultra mpg car.

No. You are buying a performance car.
Don't try and play the european angel to us dumb Americans.
Hypocrite .

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Sorry, should have rolled out the .

I don't have a dog in this hunt, so no feelings are hurt. I initially started looking at the BRZ, with the hopes that it would get an STI version, but have paid close attention to the 4C, as on the surface, it's carbon construction and good power to weight numbers are very appealing. Like GTF, I'd rather have a lighter car than simply a powerful one, so the absolute number doesn't really matter to me.

But the important thing for many of us reading this, those in the US at least, is that Alfa has both said our version will be at least 150 pounds heavier (with one rumor of 300+ pounds) to provide for better crash ratings, and further, there's still an extremely high chance that we'll never get the 4C in the US at all due to the current attempts of Chrysler to offer an IPO, which would create problems with Alfa coming back here at all.

Different strokes for different folks. I get that. I'm sure the weight they add into the car can be undone be anybody willing to do so and just like any turbo car there will be a "chip" out there to tune it to over 300 hp. Like I originally said, price tag just seems steep.

Originally Posted by bjayfan

Seems to be trying to do what Lotus did way back when. Very light with exceptional handling, yet compromised on most everything else.

It will fill a niche, maybe.

Small niche but i'm sure people will buy it.

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

No one is forcing you to buy an Alfa 4C if you don't believe in its capabilities. At least its claimed 0-62 mph time is so ever slightly lower at 4.5 s than the Camaro 1le 0-60 mph time which is 4.5 s... or if you will it's at least the same time.

As for the price, you have to realize that lightness adds a lot of money to the price tag, be it in Europe or in the US, and for you to understand the benefit of it, how it makes the driver to be intimately connected to the car as if it was a bionic extension of your body and hence making of it a truly driver's car you really need to drive a lightweight car with a comparable performance to the Alfa 4C... or better still, the Alfa Romeo 4C itself.

Of course that, I could add the huge benefits in terms of fuel consumption and emissions but you being an american much probably wouldn't care. However, this is something that concerns me as an european because 1 gallon of petrol is WAY too expensive in the old continent as it is a Camaro because of its big engine and emissions.

For sure when you compare the Alfa 4C against a 981 Porsche Cayman S, a Boxster S or a E92 M3, which the Alfa 4C can beat performance wise, you realize that at 54000$ the 4C is the less expensive of them all, and I mean, by a HUGE margin.

As for the Camaro the only car I've ever owned that more closely can resemble it for the big torque and weight is my BMW 1M... and all I can tell you is I want to trade it for the Alfa 4C and I'm waiting for the dealer answer to close the deal.

Agreed but nobody is forcing you to read my opinion on an internet forum. If you are comparing 0-60 times from a magazine then I would consider you a hypocrite. You say that lightweight chassis and driver feel are important yet you are internet spec racing, interesting...

I understand the price of gas but then why do you own a 1M. Shouldn't you have bought something "environmentally friendly". The way people feel across the pond are not the way americans think. If you want to compete in america, then you need to consider the market and demand people are after over here.

BTW, love your classic internet shit talking and assumptions. Shows the maturity level we are all dealing with .

Originally Posted by gonzo

As such a concerned "european", snarf, regarding fuel consumption and emissions, what in the world are you doing driving a 1m .

Should you not be:
A. Walking
B. Riding a bike.
C. Riding a motorized cycle.
D. Taking public transportation.
E. Driving a hybrid.
F. Driving a ultra mpg car.

No. You are buying a performance car.
Don't try and play the european angel to us dumb Americans.
Hypocrite .

Agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself. But don't expect a mature response. In for the show

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by gonzo

As such a concerned "european", snarf, regarding fuel consumption and emissions, what in the world are you doing driving a 1m . Should you not be:

A. Walking
B. Riding a bike.
C. Riding a motorized cycle.
D. Taking public transportation.
E. Driving a hybrid.
F. Driving a ultra mpg car.

No. You are buying a performance car. Don't try and play the european angel to us dumb Americans. Hypocrite .

You always miss the G point... you always miss the driving pleasure and fun.

Just add lightness to your partner... and all your problems will be solved.

[gonzo]

Lord.

I am sure it is used elsewhere too but in Texas we have a saying...
Usually used when pointing at a particular head of livestock...
Every blue moon it is used for a human...

"That one ain't right"