Performance cars without a markup?

AlexFL · 03-26-2022, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Definitely a good point. My family and I have always had headaches with our BMWs out of warranty, but it's still a safer choice than smaller more niche cars. We tend to keep cars between 3-8 years though, so less-than-stellar reliability is still bearable in that timeframe.

I have to agree with the other guy about the 911. The best combination of driving dynamics, reliability, and residual values of any sports car. That's why I aspire to have a 911 as my DD eventually.

I never understood the “BMW out of warranty” fear. Just buy extra warranty from your dealer and get your bimmer covered for the time owning it.

Germanauto · 03-27-2022, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexFL

I never understood the “BMW out of warranty” fear. Just buy extra warranty from your dealer and get your bimmer covered for the time owning it.

Been there done that. Still a hassle to keep going to the dealer when X Y and Z malfunctions. The warranties get expensive too.

jmg · 03-27-2022, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Never ceases to amaze me how conservative north americans are, go get the Alfa, goes like stink, looks like sex, sells below MRSP. wtf else you need?

People are sheep, they want to feel validated in their purchase by friends/neighbors and stay within their comfort zone. So everybody hops on over to a BMW Audi Lexus etc showroom mindlessly without any thought. Brand loyalty and peer pressure are a real thing.

And of course, Alfa not running a single marketing campaign for like 5 years now is also a factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanauto

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfisti

never ceases to amaze me how conservative north americans are, go get the alfa, goes like stink, looks like sex, sells below mrsp. Wtf else you need?

people are sheep, they want to feel validated in their purchase by friends/neighbors and stay within their comfort zone. So everybody hops on over to a bmw audi lexus etc showroom mindlessly without any thought. Brand loyalty and peer pressure are a real thing.

And of course, alfa not running a single marketing campaign for like 5 years now is also a factor.

10000% 👏🏼👍

They have a horrible reputation for reliability which affects resale which average 10-20% lower residual than their competitors.

If you buying a car based on residual, then an Asian car would be the best choice.

Clearly, people who bought the Guilia liked it enough to say they'd buy it again more often than any other ICE car in it's class.

Well, being an enthusiast forum, I thought it would count for something. I realize people are paying huge premiums over MSRP to drive Kia Sorento's and such…

Reliability plays some role in enjoying an enthusiast car. Part of the fun is diving it, and I can't drive it if it's at the shop or something's wrong with it, or if I even think something could go wrong with jt.

The residual goes into the smiles per mile equation. Sure, a used Alfa is only $30-35k but the stigma is that there is a greater chance of having problems and mounting up an expensive repair at a dealership that might not be terribly convenient or as affordable. Even you favorite mechanic might not be as versed in working or even getting parts on an Italian car.

At first glance, the Alfa doesn't seem like a good choice for me. It would take a lot of convincing to own a used one out of warranty. Customer satisfaction notwithstanding, I need actual owner feedback.

Maybe on the Alfa forum? Are you implying the customer satisfaction ratings are not from owners? It's like someone said, you'll likely go with the crowd as most people do 🤷🏻 nothing wrong with that…

Customer satisfaction surveys are a good impression of those who were surveyed. How many were outside their warranty? I have no idea.

I don't generally follow the crowd, but I'm not going to NOT do something because it might be interpreted as following a crowd. I did have 3 highly unpopular i3's, I got a poorly reviewed F80 M3 that most critics said was a step away from BMW's driver oriented cars. I also got a visually unpopular G82 M4.

FCX5 · 03-27-2022, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Never ceases to amaze me how conservative north americans are, go get the Alfa, goes like stink, looks like sex, sells below MRSP. wtf else you need?

People are sheep, they want to feel validated in their purchase by friends/neighbors and stay within their comfort zone. So everybody hops on over to a BMW Audi Lexus etc showroom mindlessly without any thought. Brand loyalty and peer pressure are a real thing.

And of course, Alfa not running a single marketing campaign for like 5 years now is also a factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanauto

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfisti

never ceases to amaze me how conservative north americans are, go get the alfa, goes like stink, looks like sex, sells below mrsp. Wtf else you need?

people are sheep, they want to feel validated in their purchase by friends/neighbors and stay within their comfort zone. So everybody hops on over to a bmw audi lexus etc showroom mindlessly without any thought. Brand loyalty and peer pressure are a real thing.

And of course, alfa not running a single marketing campaign for like 5 years now is also a factor.

10000% 👏🏼👍

They have a horrible reputation for reliability which affects resale which average 10-20% lower residual than their competitors.

If you buying a car based on residual, then an Asian car would be the best choice.

Clearly, people who bought the Guilia liked it enough to say they'd buy it again more often than any other ICE car in it's class.

Well, being an enthusiast forum, I thought it would count for something. I realize people are paying huge premiums over MSRP to drive Kia Sorento's and such…

Reliability plays some role in enjoying an enthusiast car. Part of the fun is diving it, and I can't drive it if it's at the shop or something's wrong with it, or if I even think something could go wrong with jt.

The residual goes into the smiles per mile equation. Sure, a used Alfa is only $30-35k but the stigma is that there is a greater chance of having problems and mounting up an expensive repair at a dealership that might not be terribly convenient or as affordable. Even you favorite mechanic might not be as versed in working or even getting parts on an Italian car.

At first glance, the Alfa doesn't seem like a good choice for me. It would take a lot of convincing to own a used one out of warranty. Customer satisfaction notwithstanding, I need actual owner feedback.

Maybe on the Alfa forum? Are you implying the customer satisfaction ratings are not from owners? It's like someone said, you'll likely go with the crowd as most people do 🤷🏻 nothing wrong with that…

Customer satisfaction surveys are a good impression of those who were surveyed. How many were outside their warranty? I have no idea.

I don't generally follow the crowd, but I'm not going to NOT do something because it might be interpreted as following a crowd. I did have 3 highly unpopular i3's, I got a poorly reviewed F80 M3 that most critics said was a step away from BMW's driver oriented cars. I also got a visually unpopular G82 M4.

Looks like you should get another BMW given your experience. All I was doing was offering an alternative. One can poke holes in anything. Fact of life. So what makes you happy. Easy.

BMWCCA1 · 03-27-2022, 11:46 AM

Just took an order yesterday for the upcoming M2 . . . at MSRP, whatever (and whenever) that will be.

Did the same for the M5CS when it was announced. Took about one-year to get delivered. Customer was very happy to have it—at MSRP.

jmg · 03-27-2022, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Never ceases to amaze me how conservative north americans are, go get the Alfa, goes like stink, looks like sex, sells below MRSP. wtf else you need?

People are sheep, they want to feel validated in their purchase by friends/neighbors and stay within their comfort zone. So everybody hops on over to a BMW Audi Lexus etc showroom mindlessly without any thought. Brand loyalty and peer pressure are a real thing.

And of course, Alfa not running a single marketing campaign for like 5 years now is also a factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanauto

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfisti

never ceases to amaze me how conservative north americans are, go get the alfa, goes like stink, looks like sex, sells below mrsp. Wtf else you need?

people are sheep, they want to feel validated in their purchase by friends/neighbors and stay within their comfort zone. So everybody hops on over to a bmw audi lexus etc showroom mindlessly without any thought. Brand loyalty and peer pressure are a real thing.

And of course, alfa not running a single marketing campaign for like 5 years now is also a factor.

10000% 👏🏼👍

They have a horrible reputation for reliability which affects resale which average 10-20% lower residual than their competitors.

If you buying a car based on residual, then an Asian car would be the best choice.

Clearly, people who bought the Guilia liked it enough to say they'd buy it again more often than any other ICE car in it's class.

Well, being an enthusiast forum, I thought it would count for something. I realize people are paying huge premiums over MSRP to drive Kia Sorento's and such…

Reliability plays some role in enjoying an enthusiast car. Part of the fun is diving it, and I can't drive it if it's at the shop or something's wrong with it, or if I even think something could go wrong with jt.

The residual goes into the smiles per mile equation. Sure, a used Alfa is only $30-35k but the stigma is that there is a greater chance of having problems and mounting up an expensive repair at a dealership that might not be terribly convenient or as affordable. Even you favorite mechanic might not be as versed in working or even getting parts on an Italian car.

At first glance, the Alfa doesn't seem like a good choice for me. It would take a lot of convincing to own a used one out of warranty. Customer satisfaction notwithstanding, I need actual owner feedback.

Maybe on the Alfa forum? Are you implying the customer satisfaction ratings are not from owners? It's like someone said, you'll likely go with the crowd as most people do 🤷🏻 nothing wrong with that…

Customer satisfaction surveys are a good impression of those who were surveyed. How many were outside their warranty? I have no idea.

I don't generally follow the crowd, but I'm not going to NOT do something because it might be interpreted as following a crowd. I did have 3 highly unpopular i3's, I got a poorly reviewed F80 M3 that most critics said was a step away from BMW's driver oriented cars. I also got a visually unpopular G82 M4.

Looks like you should get another BMW given your experience. All I was doing was offering an alternative. One can poke holes in anything. Fact of life. So what makes you happy. Easy.

I'm not the OP so I didn't start this thread, however I just so happen to also be looking for a DD. BMW X3 M40i and E46 M3 are the only BMW's on my list of possibilities. VW GTI SE or Autobahn, Porsche Macan or Cayenne, and Civic Type R, among others are also in consideration.

blinkme323 · 03-27-2022, 09:07 PM

Local dealership wants 20k ADM for a Golf R. It's thunderdome out there right now.

OkieSnuffBox · 03-29-2022, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Actually, customer satisfaction is probably the best indicator. Owners are asked, "Considering all factors (price, performance, reliability, comfort, enjoyment, etc.), would you get this car if you had to do it all over again?"

Here is how specific models in the small luxury class stand based on owners saying they would 'definitely' buy the same car again. Like Germanauto said, people are sheep and won't go beyond what others think of what they buy. In the end, all cars are generally reliable today, and the Alfa isn't so unreliable that owners regret buying it. Or the reliability of the Q50 isn't enough to make people not regret buying it.

The Infiniti Q50 is the most reliable and least liked car in the segment. LOL. The Alfa is the least reliable and 2nd most liked. Easy to see why the Tesla Model 3 is doing so well…reliability above 3 series, and most liked….

The two charts compared against each other is very interesting indeed!

It's called "confirmation bias."

In other words, rationalizing your own poor decision.

davidvan05 · 03-29-2022, 01:31 PM

For sure you can get a Model 3 performance for MSRP and I think another good choice is the toyota supra.

Donatello. · 03-29-2022, 10:20 PM

I'm in the market for a Miata & in the middle of winter they all wanted MSRP or more LOL GTFO.

I'm just going to try to find a used 30th AE. That's what I really want anyway

FCX5 · 03-30-2022, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCX5

Actually, customer satisfaction is probably the best indicator. Owners are asked, "Considering all factors (price, performance, reliability, comfort, enjoyment, etc.), would you get this car if you had to do it all over again?"

Here is how specific models in the small luxury class stand based on owners saying they would 'definitely' buy the same car again. Like Germanauto said, people are sheep and won't go beyond what others think of what they buy. In the end, all cars are generally reliable today, and the Alfa isn't so unreliable that owners regret buying it. Or the reliability of the Q50 isn't enough to make people not regret buying it.

The Infiniti Q50 is the most reliable and least liked car in the segment. LOL. The Alfa is the least reliable and 2nd most liked. Easy to see why the Tesla Model 3 is doing so well…reliability above 3 series, and most liked….

The two charts compared against each other is very interesting indeed!

It's called "confirmation bias."

In other words, rationalizing your own poor decision.

So confirmation bias only for some cars not others? Does it apply to your purchase as well?

PittsDriver · 03-30-2022, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donatello.

I'm in the market for a Miata & in the middle of winter they all wanted MSRP or more LOL GTFO.

I'm just going to try to find a used 30th AE. That's what I really want anyway

I bought my '21 Miata GT for MSRP minus $1500 last spring and really glad I snapped up that deal while I could.

Just ordered an X5 M50i for MSRP. That one hurt. I've never paid MSRP for a car in my life. I felt darn glad to get it for that.

03-27-2022, 11:46 AM	#49
BMWCCA1 BMW Owner Since 1971 2556 Rep 1,541 Posts Drives: 1964 700 Sport Cabriolet Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Central Virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2013 BMW 128i [10.00]	Just took an order yesterday for the upcoming M2 . . . at MSRP, whatever (and whenever) that will be. Did the same for the M5CS when it was announced. Took about one-year to get delivered. Customer was very happy to have it—at MSRP.
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03-27-2022, 09:07 PM	#51
blinkme323 Captain 542 Rep 810 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 CS Join Date: May 2011 Location: Philly iTrader: (1)	Local dealership wants 20k ADM for a Golf R. It's thunderdome out there right now. __________________ 2018 SMB M3 CS
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03-29-2022, 01:31 PM	#53
davidvan05 Enlisted Member 44 Rep 31 Posts Drives: 2008 m3 Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Prospect Heights. IL iTrader: (0)	For sure you can get a Model 3 performance for MSRP and I think another good choice is the toyota supra.
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03-29-2022, 10:20 PM	#54
Donatello. How's My Driving? 1292 Rep 1,126 Posts Drives: Hellcat & Miata Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: US iTrader: (0)	I'm in the market for a Miata & in the middle of winter they all wanted MSRP or more LOL GTFO. I'm just going to try to find a used 30th AE. That's what I really want anyway
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