[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Interesting timing, my current m340i lease will end mid 2026 and this is my second G20 3 series lease. They have really stretched out the life cycle of this current generation, I guess a lot of owners will need to buyout and wait or they push people into the X3. I wonder if the G20 will receive any material updates between now and then, as much as I love it not sure I would lease a 3rd one when its essentially the same car..

Stretched out the lifecycle? Its funny, to me it feels like it was just yesterday they were released. Drove my first one this summer lol

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by 10"

Nah…it’s all hype.

Since I bought a Model 3 in 2018, 6 people among my friends switched to Teslas, from boring RAV4 owners to someone who has a 981 GT4 sitting next to the Tesla in his garage. Not a single person has expressed any desire to go back to ICE.

I was on the other coast last month and rented a gas powered because my company's discount plan doesn't cover EVs. It was a torture.

[harperium]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Since I bought a Model 3 in 2018, 6 people among my friends switched to Teslas, from boring RAV4 owners to someone who has a 981 GT4 sitting next to the Tesla in his garage. Not a single person has expressed any desire to go back to ICE.

I was on the other coast last month and rented a gas powered because my company's discount plan doesn't cover EVs. It was a torture.

A more relevant data point: last Labor Day I drove 800 miles. Saw thousands upon thousands of cars. Most are cheap crap. I saw 1 Tesla near a city. No way even a quarter of these cars will be BEV by 2035.

In the 1980s the Mormons used to brag about their “exponential” growth. If their growth had continued as they predicted the entire world would be Mormon by now.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by harperium

A more relevant data point: last Labor Day I drove 800 miles. Saw thousands upon thousands of cars. Most are cheap crap. I saw 1 Tesla near a city. No way even a quarter of these cars will be BEV by 2035.

See one of my posts above where I talk about third world infrastructure problems. For a counterexample, try spending a day in a city on either coast.

I drove a rental Polestar in Germany two months ago. No issues charging whatsoever: used a Level 2 charger at the hotel (a tiny pension in a tiny Schwarzwald village), another Level 2 in a nearby city garage, a Tesla Supercharger on the autobahn. Felt easier than it would have been in a similarly rural part of the US. Correspondingly, a high percentage of the cars on the road were EVs, with the main difference compared to the US coasts being a much wider variety of makes.

The US is being left behind.

[bunker]

Originally Posted by cobramite

The guys who are banking on an EV only landscape in the next 5-10 years are in for a surprise. Electric is part of the future but is most certainly not "the" future. Fossil fuels are NOT going away and neither are the vehicles(cars, trucks, boats, trains, heavy equipment, military vehicles, jet airliners, cargo ships, and more) that run on them. Bet strong money on that one. Take all the ridiculous mandates and predictions from the tree huggers and radical politicians with a huge grain of salt as none of this is going to happen in the short term. We are decades away from any serious transitions as the technology has a very long way to go.

lol ok m8. just saying a thing doesn’t make it happen yanno.

[mbanck]

So a 9-month delay for the first PHEV to come out - looks like BMW is somewhat pivoting away from PHEVs towards MHEV/BEV?

In Germany, you still get tax subsidies if you drive a PHEV as a company car, but it seems the writing is on the wall.

[gameson]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

No one is saying that the next M3 will be an EV. Just not a pure ICE. It WILL have some sort of electrification. The XM / M5 is just the start.

If you want pure ICE, as has been said, BMW has stated the current M2 will be the last pure ICE.

Not M2C ?

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Since I bought a Model 3 in 2018, 6 people among my friends switched to Teslas, from boring RAV4 owners to someone who has a 981 GT4 sitting next to the Tesla in his garage. Not a single person has expressed any desire to go back to ICE.

I was on the other coast last month and rented a gas powered because my company's discount plan doesn't cover EVs. It was a torture.

I think I know why your friend has a GT4 next to his Tesla. I’ve had my Tesla since 2017. It’s a perfect daily. Kinda boring to drive though. Tesla + sports car is a perfect combo.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by bmwdrive

I think I know why your friend has a GT4 next to his Tesla. I’ve had my Tesla since 2017. It’s a perfect daily. Kinda boring to drive though. Tesla + sports car is a perfect combo.

Correct.

What most of the vocal M3 owners here forget is that for each one of them, there are thousands of CR-V/Elantra/Corolla owners who are perfectly happy with boring. And no car manufacturer, with only a few exceptions (like the notable declaration by Porsche that they'll keep ICE in the 911 - but not in their other cars) will throw money at ICE R&D if the only people buying them are enthusiasts. With BMW, we're already seeing this with 7 year lifecycles becoming a thing of the past and B48, B58, and S68 likely being the last ICEs BMW will have ever designed.

[brava09]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Since I bought a Model 3 in 2018, 6 people among my friends switched to Teslas, from boring RAV4 owners to someone who has a 981 GT4 sitting next to the Tesla in his garage. Not a single person has expressed any desire to go back to ICE.

I was on the other coast last month and rented a gas powered because my company's discount plan doesn't cover EVs. It was a torture.

It takes a certain customer profile to go EV and never want to go back to ICE.
Had a Tesla Model 3 Performance as company car, gave it up two weeks later and so happy with my M4 xdrive

[MalibuM3]

Originally Posted by brava09

It takes a certain customer profile to go EV and never want to go back to ICE.
Had a Tesla Model 3 Performance as company car, gave it up two weeks later and so happy with my M4 xdrive

+1

[JK479]

Originally Posted by cobramite

The guys who are banking on an EV only landscape in the next 5-10 years are in for a surprise. Electric is part of the future but is most certainly not "the" future. Fossil fuels are NOT going away and neither are the vehicles(cars, trucks, boats, trains, heavy equipment, military vehicles, jet airliners, cargo ships, and more) that run on them. Bet strong money on that one. Take all the ridiculous mandates and predictions from the tree huggers and radical politicians with a huge grain of salt as none of this is going to happen in the short term. We are decades away from any serious transitions as the technology has a very long way to go.

I want to agree here- but look how oppressive COVID lockdowns were for a few years. Wouldn’t be surprised if that same group puts pressure to maintain the mandated schedule.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

No.

Why not? That's definitely the direction they're heading with the -50 designation. If they're making an M350, that's what it'll be, unless they decide to have -50 mean different things.

[bmwdrive]

Originally Posted by brava09

It takes a certain customer profile to go EV and never want to go back to ICE.
Had a Tesla Model 3 Performance as company car, gave it up two weeks later and so happy with my M4 xdrive

If you go to Tesla forums, every single person (that I have seen) swears up and down that they would never, ever go back to ICE. It's like going back to riding a horse or using a flip phone. I think it's the predominant view. (I totally understand why you would be happier with an M4.)

[brava09]

Originally Posted by bmwdrive

If you go to Tesla forums, every single person (that I have seen) swears up and down that they would never, ever go back to ICE. It's like going back to riding a horse or using a flip phone. I think it's the predominant view. (I totally understand why you would be happier with an M4.)

Sure, Tesla forums it’s made of that specific customer profile I was talking about. The same way Bimmerpost it’s made of a different customer profile. Nothing wrong with any of them

And riding a horse is a very pleasant activity . And for sure more exciting than driving an EV

[MassBimmer]

Originally Posted by rjd_F30

Why not? That's definitely the direction they're heading with the -50 designation. If they're making an M350, that's what it'll be, unless they decide to have -50 mean different things.

Not sure how long you’ve been around, but ynguldyn has been around since the E90Post days, if not earlier. Nobody on Bimmerpost is more accurate, I’d listen to what he says

[baron95]

Not sure I understand how the Neue Klasse fits in. At least the concept shown was a 3-series sized vehicle. I know that is just a concept, but they talked about Neue Klasse launching in the same timeframe mentioned here.

BMW's product line up is already very complex. If they are keeping the current architecture cars and layering another set of Neue Klasse in parallel it will be a nightmare. (seems to be the way Mercedes is going)

Just training the sales force, the technicians, and educating customers will be a nightmare.

To say nothing about the complexity of product management, suppply chain, production, etc.

This sounds scary for the brand if that is what they will do.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

See one of my posts above where I talk about third world infrastructure problems. For a counterexample, try spending a day in a city on either coast.

I drove a rental Polestar in Germany two months ago. No issues charging whatsoever: used a Level 2 charger at the hotel (a tiny pension in a tiny Schwarzwald village), another Level 2 in a nearby city garage, a Tesla Supercharger on the autobahn. Felt easier than it would have been in a similarly rural part of the US. Correspondingly, a high percentage of the cars on the road were EVs, with the main difference compared to the US coasts being a much wider variety of makes.

The US is being left behind.

The biggest problem with EVs is the lack of reliable charging network and the mass ability to charge 10s of millions of cars daily in the US. Let alone in we'll developed countries.

Think about a large apartment complex with 300 cars, not possbile. Never mind the ability to have enough power in the grid if you had a large area all juicing up in the summer. The power grid was never designed for the amount of EVs, yeah you can claim wind or solar but in the winter or got months when people are running AC to keep cool, governments and power companies will be like nah don't charge your car or will up the price to our downward pressure.

Current EV owners are all for it but what happens when the electric supply doesn't meet demands and the cost to charge isn't free? Your paying more than a ICE car to fill and takes hrs to do so. Or your not able to as the grid is over burdened and they are doing rolling blackouts.

To force all cars to go EV isn't the answer, neither is ICE but to have options on the table which use a few different technical advantages would be best.

Be it hybrids with EV range, ability to run more than one fuel source be it fossil or synthetic, and efficient both in terms of environmental impact and operational usage.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by rjd_F30

Why not? That's definitely the direction they're heading with the -50 designation. If they're making an M350, that's what it'll be, unless they decide to have -50 mean different things.

Of course 50 means different things. You have i4 M50, 50e in various models with various combinations of engines and EMs, now 50 for cars with B58.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by MassBimmer

Not sure how long you’ve been around, but ynguldyn has been around since the E90Post days, if not earlier.

Now you've made me feel old.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by baron95

Not sure I understand how the Neue Klasse fits in. At least the concept shown was a 3-series sized vehicle. I know that is just a concept, but they talked about Neue Klasse launching in the same timeframe mentioned here.

It's pretty simple actually. Once the transition is complete, 7-8 years from now, Neue Klasse is going to be the primary platform for all BMWs and at least some MINIs. Today, we have FAAR and CLAR because FWD and RWD have different optimizations, for EVs the difference doesn't exist so you'll get NCAR for everything. We already know that it will cover the complete range of sedan/coupe models, from i1 to i7, and most of the SUV range, from iX1 to iX4, with iX5/iX7 likely to follow once BMW is done with G65/G67.

At the same time, BMW will continue making ICE cars because not every market can be EV only. However, since those will mostly be poorer countries/regions, their volume and buying preferences don't justify the same level of investment into new models. So, lifecycles of ICE cars will get longer (we're already seeing it with the expected 9 year lifecycle for G20, 11 year lifecycle for U11, and now I'm getting a totally crazy signal that G45 could last for 15 years - though I don't yet believe it myself), there will be fewer variants of each models, and some models will disappear altogether. They will be produced in parallel with NCAR models but it's logical to expect that there will be many markets where only ICE or only EV models will be sold. They won't have any complexity in their sales or support processes.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

The biggest problem with EVs is the lack of reliable charging network and the mass ability to charge 10s of millions of cars daily in the US. Let alone in we'll developed countries.

Think about a large apartment complex with 300 cars, not possbile. Never mind the ability to have enough power in the grid if you had a large area all juicing up in the summer. The power grid was never designed for the amount of EVs, yeah you can claim wind or solar but in the winter or got months when people are running AC to keep cool, governments and power companies will be like nah don't charge your car or will up the price to our downward pressure.

I don't know about all the many utilities across the US but here's the one where I live:

According to Eversource, its plan will increase its grid capacity by 180%, or 3.4 GW, enabling “full electrification” for customers adopting EVs or heat pumps in the utility’s Metro-Boston and Western Massachusetts regions. The system expansion will also provide “significant opportunities” for customers in the company’s MetroWest and South regions.

That is, they fully understand the future changes in demand (heat pumps actually being a larger driver than EVs) and are working to provide the necessary capacity.

Besides, the same parts of the country that are the most vocal about grid capacity concerns are the best ones for rooftop solar.