[E90SLAM]

When a driver wins the WDC...there's always excuses judging him that he's not worth it....no matter who...

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by G-Mach1

I am not here to say who should have won. The question was in he a worthy champion? In my mind he is not. If he was a good driver he would have won many more races than what he won in his time in F1. For crying out loud he was behind a rookie who had never seen the track before in Brazil.
In my mind JB is not even in the same league as some of the other drivers you listed here. you can't compare JB to Vettel,Hamilton or Raikkonen.
This year Brwan was benefited from a loop hole in the design. Lets see how they are going to be next year.

I dont think the DDD is the ONLY reason they've won....other teams like Toyota also has it....

and also...JB is very good at staying away from trouble (except Spa) and not making too many mistakes during race....

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by G-Mach1

For crying out loud he was behind a rookie who had never seen the track before in Brazil.

The guy was blocking him lap after lap. I can speak from experience that it is VERY easy for a slower driver to hold up and or block a faster one. It has zero to do with skill and more to do with track position when entering an overtaking zone. Add to the fact that it is extremely difficult to overtake in F1 to begin with. The real skill came when Button forced his way through finally and kept teh car in check on the ragged edge while making that pass. A leser driver would have lost control or collided with the other car. It may not have looked like it but that pass was just as skillful a piece of driving and car control than any. But I'm sure you would have made short work of such a "rookie" had you been in the race Let's not forget that there were several other drivers that had a hard time passing Kobayashi as well. I guess they all suck too.

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by JSH

Every year someone makes a thread coming up with all sorts of convenient stats and arguments why the new world champ isnt worthy.

- When Hamilton won people said he wasn't the best, it was the car.
- Raikkonen, only won in Michaels car.
- Michael wasn't worthy because he was an arrogant @#$%(other peoples words not mine)..

The list goes on...

At the end of the day Button took maximum advantage of his opportunities when he and his car had a jump on the competition. As the "fully funded" teams kept introducing updates and catching Brawn, Button and Brawn stayed consistent and amassed as many points as they could to protect their lead.

They ran the best campaign a non factory funded team could and proved that you don't have to be called McLaren or Ferrari to win.

How any of that makes you unworthy, I don't understand.

The problem with your argument is that Rubens outperformed Button in the second half of the season... If it was just the case of the fully funded teams catching up, then how do you explain Rubben's performance and 2 wins?

Also, JB does not suck, but he is very one dimentional, Hobbs and Matchett always comment on how smooth he is with the steering inputs, but they always say that he cannot drive an oversteering car...
Why is that relevant here? It's because he is not a driver that can adapt to any car and any conditions and just find a way to be fast...
If the car is balanced and neutral, and the tire temperature is optimal, he will drive well... If the car is not so balanced, he is not good at communicating to the engineers to get it there, and he cannot cope with it and gets bad results... If the tires are not at their optimum temp, he cannot overcome that and gets lost mid pack and just blames the tires....

That's why he is a good driver, but not a worthy champion

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by Ramos

The problem with your argument is that Rubens outperformed Button in the second half of the season... If it was just the case of the fully funded teams catching up, then how do you explain Rubben's performance and 2 wins?

And if one were to apply your arguement to Rubens then why did he not win more in the beginning when the Brawn car was supposedly so strong? Why was it Button not him with 6 wins? One could argue coming into 2009 that he was a better driver with more skill than Button. Why then did he still only end up with 2 wins for the entire season despite "outperforming" Button in the second part of the year?

[E90SLAM]

I think the focus here is the second half of 2009 season...for their argument...the beginning of 2009 season is irrelevant because BrawnGP has DDD....

hmmm......

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Ramos

The problem with your argument is that Rubens outperformed Button in the second half of the season... If it was just the case of the fully funded teams catching up, then how do you explain Rubben's performance and 2 wins?

Also, JB does not suck, but he is very one dimentional, Hobbs and Matchett always comment on how smooth he is with the steering inputs, but they always say that he cannot drive an oversteering car...
Why is that relevant here? It's because he is not a driver that can adapt to any car and any conditions and just find a way to be fast...
If the car is balanced and neutral, and the tire temperature is optimal, he will drive well... If the car is not so balanced, he is not good at communicating to the engineers to get it there, and he cannot cope with it and gets bad results... If the tires are not at their optimum temp, he cannot overcome that and gets lost mid pack and just blames the tires....

That's why he is a good driver, but not a worthy champion

Based on your argument...then what happened on Barrichello's set up in the beginning 7 races??? They have pretty much identical car....

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

And if one were to apply your arguement to Rubens then why did he not win more in the beginning when the Brawn car was supposedly so strong? Why was it Button not him with 6 wins? One could argue coming into 2009 that he was a better driver with more skill than Button. Why then did he still only end up with 2 wins for the entire season despite "outperforming" Button in the second part of the year?

Fine, then Rubens is not worthy of being WDC either, but that does not mean that JB is.... Can you argue that he is in fact a one dimensional driver who only excels when the car and conditions are both optimal

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Ramos

The problem with your argument is that Rubens outperformed Button in the second half of the season... If it was just the case of the fully funded teams catching up, then how do you explain Rubben's performance and 2 wins?

Also, JB does not suck, but he is very one dimentional, Hobbs and Matchett always comment on how smooth he is with the steering inputs, but they always say that he cannot drive an oversteering car...
Why is that relevant here? It's because he is not a driver that can adapt to any car and any conditions and just find a way to be fast...
If the car is balanced and neutral, and the tire temperature is optimal, he will drive well... If the car is not so balanced, he is not good at communicating to the engineers to get it there, and he cannot cope with it and gets bad results... If the tires are not at their optimum temp, he cannot overcome that and gets lost mid pack and just blames the tires....

That's why he is a good driver, but not a worthy champion

Well, Rubens was chasing and Button was trying to protect his championship position by not making mistakes or taking risks. Conservative? Yes... Unworthy?, no.

As for drivers who have trouble when the car isn't perfect.... well... I can think of only maybe two guys in recent times who could win with the undriveable car. Schumacher (M) and Alonso. Everyone else bitches and moans anytime the car isn't up to scratch - it's normal, they suffer from a condition known as "I am a racing driver".

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by JSH

Well, Rubens was chasing and Button was trying to protect his championship position by not making mistakes or taking risks. Conservative? Yes... Unworthy?, no.

As for drivers who have trouble when the car isn't perfect.... well... I can think of only maybe two guys in recent times who could win with the undriveable car. Schumacher (M) and Alonso. Everyone else bitches and moans anytime the car isn't up to scratch - it's normal, they suffer from a condition known as "I am a racing driver".

Reminded me of Hamilton in Turkish GP...."This is Embrassing, I can't even keep up with the Renault, tires are gone, and the car is heavier than a friggin boat..."

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Fine, then Rubens is not worthy of being WDC either, but that does not mean that JB is.... Can you argue that he is in fact a one dimensional driver who only excels when the car and conditions are both optimal

I think the chaps below did a good job of argueing this point for me .

Originally Posted by JSH

As for drivers who have trouble when the car isn't perfect.... well... I can think of only maybe two guys in recent times who could win with the undriveable car. Schumacher (M) and Alonso. Everyone else bitches and moans anytime the car isn't up to scratch - it's normal, they suffer from a condition known as "I am a racing driver".

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Reminded me of Hamilton in Turkish GP...."This is Embrassing, I can't even keep up with the Renault, tires are gone, and the car is heavier than a friggin boat..."

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

So Round 1 thru 7 doesn't count anymore???



To me...this is called selective statistics....to pick part of the statistics in favor to your argument...If Vettel or Barrichello won this year...are they worthy champion??? we're gonna raise the question too...



Vettel didn't have a competitive car in the beginning of the season...and Barrichello had multiple mitakes of over-torquing his gearbox race starts....



Afterall....FIA World Champion is being decided with 17 races....with a certain amount of point available for grab...



its a like marathon...for the first 8-10 miles...the leader build up an insane gap...then in the last 10 miles...other runners are catching up....but whoever crosses the line first wins (as who can grab the MOST available points first)....



if we're using Bernie's medal system....Button would've win the champion months ago....

(Bernie should've be glad that didn't happen...)

This.

F1 is a team sport. The BrawnGP team won and their driver was Button who did what he was supposed to do... win. Would I rather have seen Vettel or Reubens win? Sure! But that doesn't take away from the fact that Button won fair and square.

[Ramos]

well, now that the pressure of the WDC is over, let's see him redeem himself and prove his worth with a win in UAE.... I doubt he'll pull it off though...

He needs to help Rubens regain 2nd place in the championship though at the very least

[MontegoblueE92]

Originally Posted by nmulax

umm...
Ferrari: Italy
Toro Rosso: Italy
BMW: Germany/Switzerland
Toyota: Germany

Toro Rosso: Milton Keynes, UK
BMW: Switzerland, but they don't exist in 12 days, hence, the disregard

[MontegoblueE92]

Originally Posted by Ramos

well, now that the pressure of the WDC is over, let's see him redeem himself and prove his worth with a win in UAE.... I doubt he'll pull it off though...

He needs to help Rubens regain 2nd place in the championship though at the very least

First off, he doesn't NEED to redeem himself or prove his worth. He's the WDC. He could pit from the start and jog the track 50 times and he'll still be WDC.

On the other hand, it would be nice to see him race balls to the wall like he did in Brazil since it doesn't matter if he crashes out.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

Toro Rosso: Milton Keynes, UK
BMW: Switzerland, but they don't exist in 12 days, hence, the disregard

Scuderia Toro Rosso is based in Faenza, Italy

Milton Keynes is Red Bull Racing's base...even tho Toro Rosso is also funded by RedBull...but completely different operating identity....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toro_Rosso

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

First off, he doesn't NEED to redeem himself or prove his worth. He's the WDC. He could pit from the start and jog the track 50 times and he'll still be WDC.

On the other hand, it would be nice to see him race balls to the wall like he did in Brazil since it doesn't matter if he crashes out.

+1

Pressue is off this season...he can just enjoy the new track in Abu Dhabi....
The final race will be the last proving ground for those drivers who hasn't cement a contract with their respective teams....

[Ramos]

A world champion who hasn't won a race in 9 races? trust me he needs to redeem himself by winning this one or the negative press about him will not stop all winter

[E90SLAM]

I think the negative press is already over....all i heard was positive for the past two days....

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Ramos

A world champion who hasn't won a race in 9 races? trust me he needs to redeem himself by winning this one or the negative press about him will not stop all winter

He doesn't have to....fact is fact....

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by Ramos

A world champion who hasn't won a race in 9 races? trust me he needs to redeem himself by winning this one or the negative press about him will not stop all winter

It's official...you're the Pro Racing Forum Douche.

[MontegoblueE92]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

It's official...you're the Pro Racing Forum Douche.

Typical BMW driver