[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by M3macster

Interesting. Some EV's already do have a motor at each wheel.

The Rivian R1T and R1S do as mentioned earlier in this thread.

[M2PDX]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

BMW already went over this. They guaranteed socially responsible mining of the materials going into their batteries. And their motors don't use rare earth elements.

If you actually believe that, take another look. 90% of the world's cad going into all batteries comes from 2 locations - - and even sanctimonious BMW can't escape those facts.

Do some research. The videos are shocking.

[GoneIn4Secs]

Originally Posted by M3JetPilot

If it looks awesome and goes fast then I’ll probably drive it. That being said, the EV in its current form is a horrible idea for numerous reasons. An EV isn’t better for the environment and some EVs require being driven for 400-500 hundred thousand miles before reaching a point of offsetting the emissions from the EVs creation. This is a fact and you can find the TED talk about this on You Tube. They are heavier causing more serious injuries and damage during accidents, the batteries have a horrible impact on the environment in their creation and in being recycled, the batteries catch on fire way more than is reported, highway safety and their impact on highway infrastructure have numerous negatives, not to mention the huge cost and environmental impact of switching the world over to EVs. And on a side note the interiors of EVs I’ve seen are cheap and horribly done.

The truth is EVs are not the solution they are made out to be. They no doubt have a role to play but the ICE engine isn’t the evil thing it’s portrayed as. One of the worse things the EV craze has done is stop innovation in internal combustion engines. With carbon capture technology and even better ICE innovation then EVs become less of a solution and more of a problem for long term environmental impacts.

In many respects the switch to EVs is good marketing with a thin coating of feel good environmentalism that enables people and companies to think they are doing something good for the planet. It’s far more complicated than that.

Alot of good info on this one

[TargaM2]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

Alot of good info on this one

+1

[zero21]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

Alot of good info on this one

This has been disproven time and time again. Road and Track even recently did an article on it - it takes about 10-15k miles before an EV offsets an ICE vehicles never ending emissions (w/avg mpg mid-size vehicle).

However, if you buy a collector car and garage it, it's cleaner. Otherwise, you're just burying your head in the sand.

[TargaM2]

NEWS
Volvo Says Manufacturing An Electric Car Generates 70 Percent More Emissions Than Its ICE Equivalent

However, over the course of 124,000 miles, the EV will have a 15–50 percent lower carbon footprint than the petrol car.

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/11/vo...ol-equivalent/

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

NEWS
Volvo Says Manufacturing An Electric Car Generates 70 Percent More Emissions Than Its ICE Equivalent

However, over the course of 124,000 miles, the EV will have a 15–50 percent lower carbon footprint than the petrol car.

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/11/vo...ol-equivalent/

Do you trust Car Scoops or the EPA? Yeah, its a conspiracy, MIT, the EPA, all made this stuff up to fool you.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Do you trust Car Scoops or the EPA? Yeah, its a conspiracy, MIT, the EPA, all made this stuff up to fool you.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/el...-vehicle-myths

good post.

[GoneIn4Secs]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Do you trust Car Scoops or the EPA? Yeah, its a conspiracy, MIT, the EPA, all made this stuff up to fool you.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths

Lol, those people will suffer... those who put the authority as Truth , rather than the Truth as authority...

[H2O_Doc]

Had there not been so much Climate Change denialism in the US and other developed nations, we might have advanced other alternatives by now. Perhaps even significant carbon scrubbing and sequestration.

We have to bend the emissions curve to avoid some serious consequences. So we're putting a lot into an agreeably imperfect solution.

[GrannyShiftG80]

Originally Posted by H2O_Doc

Had there not been so much Climate Change denialism in the US and other developed nations, we might have advanced other alternatives by now. Perhaps even significant carbon scrubbing and sequestration.

We have to bend the emissions curve to avoid some serious consequences. So we're putting a lot into an agreeably imperfect solution.

if climate change is real why does it still snow? checkmate liberals

[H2O_Doc]

You captured the way the denialists think quite well 🙂

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Allenssmart

if climate change is real why does it still snow? checkmate liberals

Its the average global temperature going up. The icebergs are melting. As the permafrost melts, methane gas (greenhouse) will be released in unprecedented amounts.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Allenssmart

if climate change is real why does it still snow? checkmate liberals

My favorite climate statement hahaha

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

Lol, those people will suffer... those who put the authority as Truth , rather than the Truth as authority...

Sage words my good Sir

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by H2O_Doc

You captured the way the denialists think quite well 🙂

Definition of lunacy: arguing with an idiot, expecting wisdom

You will never win that battle

Galileo discovered that the hard way

[omasou]

I'm holding hope for hydrogen. NOT EV hydrogen.

[SatinblkF90]

Originally Posted by omasou

I'm holding hope for hydrogen. NOT EV hydrogen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3brCubXHsKQ

This looks promising. Hopefully joint efforts between 2 giants of Toyota+BMW can make this work, but so far not being able to park indoors is definitely a major roadblock.

[dominoM]

Change is hard. Yep, the science shows an EV car with the materials mining and production has more environmental cost than an ICE car. What many of you seem to forget is the cost of drilling/transporting/producing oil has an environmental cost too, not to mention geo-political like mining. But it is the ICE vehicle fuel consumption that is by far the most polluting. I read the Argonne Nat'l lab technical documents (which is behind all the news buzz). They have been working on vehicle energy analysis for more than 20 years, and they know their stuff better than anyone else. Bottom line, about 10-20k miles the EV wins.

I care about the environment, for me and my kids, but I'm not a greenie tree hugger. I'm a car nut like you. Drooled over German cars since I was a kid. I love the sound of an inline-6. Remember the Rush song Red Barchetta? I think that song could be prophetic some day.

But I also realize EVs or some other technology is the way of the future. The electric motor energy conversion is hard to beat, plus simper mechanically. I'm concerned how all these big EV SUVs and Trucks with their massive battery packs are going to work with our immature charging infrastructure. But that is where the big demand and $$ is. So let's let the early adopters have at it. The world needs beta testers.

I have an order for an ICE M car and hope to enjoy it for a long time. But some day in the not too distant future I think the EV kinks will be worked out, and I'll have no problem buying an EV family hauler that we can easily take for road trips or whatever. I also think BMW (and Porshce, etc.) will figure out how to make insanely capable EV sports cars.

So my advice would be to enjoy what you have now. Don't cling too hard to the past. It's all gonna be ok.

[ADEe92]

Originally Posted by c18

If im not mistaken I remember the head of the M division flaunted there will never be a 3 cylinder or 4 cylinder M car, cheeky bastard didnt mention anythint about a 0 cylinder. I get what you mean though its all about the money

If that statement is correct then the current head of M Division doesn't know their history because the e30 M3 already was a 4 cylinder M-Car, and their most powerful engine of all time was the M13 F1 engine with roughly 1400hp - a 4 cylinder turbo.

I don't think too many would complain if the 1.5L hybrid from the i8 was further developed for a small M-car either, but it seems EVs will be the future.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by dbvallett

M’s final pure combustion car? I hope that comment ages like milk.

This is why I'm "all in" on a manual G87. End of an era.

I will personally never own an electric car of any variety, M or not.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by dominoM

Change is hard. Yep, the science shows an EV car with the materials mining and production has more environmental cost than an ICE car. What many of you seem to forget is the cost of drilling/transporting/producing oil has an environmental cost too, not to mention geo-political like mining. But it is the ICE vehicle fuel consumption that is by far the most polluting. I read the Argonne Nat'l lab technical documents (which is behind all the news buzz). They have been working on vehicle energy analysis for more than 20 years, and they know their stuff better than anyone else. Bottom line, about 10-20k miles the EV wins.

I care about the environment, for me and my kids, but I'm not a greenie tree hugger. I'm a car nut like you. Drooled over German cars since I was a kid. I love the sound of an inline-6. Remember the Rush song Red Barchetta? I think that song could be prophetic some day.

But I also realize EVs or some other technology is the way of the future. The electric motor energy conversion is hard to beat, plus simper mechanically. I'm concerned how all these big EV SUVs and Trucks with their massive battery packs are going to work with our immature charging infrastructure. But that is where the big demand and $$ is. So let's let the early adopters have at it. The world needs beta testers.

I have an order for an ICE M car and hope to enjoy it for a long time. But some day in the not too distant future I think the EV kinks will be worked out, and I'll have no problem buying an EV family hauler that we can easily take for road trips or whatever. I also think BMW (and Porshce, etc.) will figure out how to make insanely capable EV sports cars.

So my advice would be to enjoy what you have now. Don't cling too hard to the past. It's all gonna be ok.

From an environmental point of view, even by excluding the environmental impact from mining materials for batteries or recycling old batteries, EV is still fossil dirty. 60% of energy generated in the US in 2021 came from burning fossil fuels. Having more EVs on the road will raise the electricity demand a lot higher, requiring even more fossil fuels. EVs just shift the pollution source from ICE to the power stations.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/...on%20in%202021.