[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

is right.

You never mention the M2. Or the 2 series at all.

What about a Z4M ?

This kind of thinking means we will truly have sausages of various lengths. Not really tailoring to the enthusiast with that mentality.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Perhaps you should have read on.
Watch as VAG also resort to Turbos in order to match forthcoming legislations.

The V12 engine will still continue at BMW because it will still be required for the 7er - A G12 760Li will be available as will V12 replacements for the Rolls-Royce Ghost and additional models.

And then this is going to happen.
Helped along by emission busting FWD cars , BMWi and lower emissions throughout the portfolio. BMW will be in position to launch a model like this.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-...er-2017-scoop/

A mix of aluminium and Carbon Fibre.

A V-16 oil tanker is cool and all. Honestly though, I'd rather have BMW lose money on a relatively inexpensive lightweight, RWD, roadster that actually drives like a sports car should.

[ihc95]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Perhaps you should have read on.
Watch as VAG also resort to Turbos in order to match forthcoming legislations.

The V12 engine will still continue at BMW because it will still be required for the 7er - A G12 760Li will be available as will V12 replacements for the Rolls-Royce Ghost and additional models.

And then this is going to happen.
Helped along by emission busting FWD cars , BMWi and lower emissions throughout the portfolio. BMW will be in position to launch a model like this.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-...er-2017-scoop/

A mix of aluminium and Carbon Fibre.

Will the upcoming 7er and 5er be bigger still than the current models? (regardless of weight)

[CarReviewBMW]

BMW have lost it's way. Like I said before, they were very happy to play third behind Lexus/Mercedes in terms of sales numbers from 2000-2010. No complains at all during that decade. They didn't care much and never attempted to push their sales up to #1. The Brand focused on performance and putting out wonderful car after wonderful car.
That all changed when they took the sales crown and from that moment on, their focus is now on being #1 in sales numbers and stats. Expect a 'CLA' fighter every soon. Possibly a 28,000USD 'BMW' 'FWD' family sedan.
It's funny because it seem like BMW/Lexus is swapping places.... now BMW is edged towards the conservative luxury rides and comfort while Lexus is going towards the aggression and driver's car mentality+styling.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

is right.

You never mention the M2. Or the 2 series at all.

What about a Z4M ?

This kind of thinking means we will truly have sausages of various lengths. Not really tailoring to the enthusiast with that mentality.

Please go back a page and read. Especially the part about the 2er.

[Mikecom32]

So this means a (massive) 760iL and an M4 are going to share the same platform?

Scott, how is that good news for enthusiasts? These cars have completely separate goals (and target audiences).

Sounds like someone is going to be compromising here.

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by ItsHectic

I had a dream a few nights ago I was at a Kia dealership about to buy a Kia but decided I couldnt because I had Korean people living in the neighbourhood and they know how shit Kias are.

Have you tried the new Optima? I have. I was blown away by how good it was. The days of driving Kias because you are poor and blind are over.

[chiefneil]

I don't know jack about platform sharing other than what I've seen firsthand and read about in the press.

What I've seen is that when BMW has built smaller cars off the base 3-series platform, there's almost no weight reduction. The first 1-series weighed about the same as the 3. And now the new M235i weighs in at 3500 pounds, also about the same as my 335i. I believe way way back, even the 318ti weighed about as much as a regular 318i.

I also have read reviews of infiniti's sport coupe - whatever the G35 is called these days. The reviews mention that the size, weight, and profile were all larger than desired due to platform sharing with a larger sedan.

So I suspect that most of the concerned people are like me - I have no engineering knowledge, but my past experience hasn't been that exciting with regards to platform sharing. If the next 7-series drops some weight and comes in at 4100 pounds due to the CFRP stuff, will BMW declare victory when they trim a little more and the shared-platform 3-series comes in at 3800 pounds because it's 300 pounds lighter than a 7-series? That would be a relative win but an objective loss in my book.

What I've realized with my F30 335i is that my pain point for weight is around 3300 pounds. When I get back in my E46 330i which I still have in the garage, it's obviously a slower car but the lighter weight is hugely noticeable and brings back the grins that the heavier F30 is missing. Personally, I don't plan on going above 3500 pounds again for my daily driver. At the end of the day the only thing I care about is the weight of my preferred daily driver - a 3-series.

[CarReviewBMW]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Say hello to your VW BMW. I don't know why BMW is determined to build terrible cars.

Because it's 'terrible' for online car fans like you and everyone on these forums. BUT it's great for the BMW BRAND.

It's not a 'concidence' that BMW started selling more when they started appealing to the actual public. They were always a top 3 Seller in America. Now they have a great chance to actually start a #1 run like Lexus did during the 2000's. Why? Because they are smart and know the average consumer look at the 328 and the 335 in the same way. 'It's a 3'.
They don't need to build great engines, they just need to build a bunch of 40,000-50,000 dollar cars that can appeal to the masses.

[Taskmaster]

Stylist at BMW are blind as well. I say we trash the brand, and go back to the engineer ran BMW brand from the 90's/2000s.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by CarReviewBMW

Because it's 'terrible' for online car fans like you and everyone on these forums. BUT it's great for the BMW BRAND.

It's not a 'concidence' that BMW started selling more when they started appealing to the actual public. They were always a top 3 Seller in America. Now they have a great chance to actually start a #1 run like Lexus did during the 2000's. Why? Because they are smart and know the average consumer look at the 328 and the 335 in the same way. 'It's a 3'.
They don't need to build great engines, they just need to build a bunch of 40,000-50,000 dollar cars that can appeal to the masses.

It's going to be hilarious when this backfires and they become the new GM. Volume isn't everything.

[cs4444]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

It's going to be hilarious when this backfires and they become the new GM. Volume isn't everything.

I fail to grasp the BMW is like GM comparison, if any German brand could be compared with GM its VW (Skoda, Audi).

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Mikecom32

So this means a (massive) 760iL and an M4 are going to share the same platform?

Scott, how is that good news for enthusiasts? These cars have completely separate goals (and target audiences).

Sounds like someone is going to be compromising here.

I suggest you go back a few pages and read from the very beginning to understand how this all comes together.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by cs4444

I fail to grasp the BMW is like GM comparison, if any German brand could be compared with GM its VW (Skoda, Audi).

Well, VW is trash, just like GM was. But GM spread itself too thin with terrible products that shared too many parts.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Well, VW is trash, just like GM was. But GM spread itself too thin with terrible products that shared too many parts.

And there it is. Now we have come full circle.

[sand99]

Integrating carbon fiber into the platform can't be cheap. While Audi/Mercedes are busy integrating aluminum, BMW is one step ahead by moving to CFRP with the upcoming G platform.

By reducing the number of platforms, they're able to achieve economies of scale. BMW must have determined this was the only way to make CFRP economically viable at this time. Scott26 can't say this externally of course.

Enthusiasts will still have the shared platform with Toyota, so that's a positive sign. Assuming the next-generation 4er uses this shared platform also, we'll actually see even more differentiation between the 3er and 4er, which would actually be a good thing imo.

[ItsHectic]

Originally Posted by Soorena

Have you tried the new Optima? I have. I was blown away by how good it was. The days of driving Kias because you are poor and blind are over.

I will add it to the test drive list.

[Seamus]

Does this mean no future all wheel drive models? Surely not?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by cs4444

Im getting dizzy from all the spin.

If you read Scott's entire post. Bmw's platform sharing would be at the forefront b/c it would be the first to utilize carbon fiber, magnesium, and aluminum, all in significant quantities. Something no manufacture has done over such a potentially large range of models.

Ah, okay so I see now, BMW invented carbon fiber reinforced plastic and introduced aluminum and magnesium to the automotive manufacturing world. Well let's see, a little company called GM made a lightweight car from steel, aluminum, magnesium, and fiber reinforced plastic. The car was designed starting in the late 1970's. 7 years later BMW copied the concept and called it the Z1 after the Fiero had been on the market almost 4 years. The Z1 was a new way to design and manufacture cars BMW said back then and would change the automotive world, however only GM started an entirely new car company from the design and manufacturing technology.

Oh, and another German company called Audi developed an all aluminum chassis way back in 1978 (saw the pictures of two Audi engineers holding up the unibody in Die Ziet back in the day). While BMW introduced the Z8 20 years later with an all-aluminum front structure that needed to be recalled after stress fractures showed up in the shock mounts. And God forbid the next gen 2015 Ford F-150 with it's all aluminum body (1st for light duty pickups) that shaves 700 pounds from the previous generation model.

But yeah, that i8, it weighs more that the Corvette and is half a second slower to 60 MPH, but hey it saves gas and costs 3 times as much!

But your right, none of these magical feats match BMW being on the forefront of engineering now that it has figured out that front wheel drive is a better packaging solution for small econoboxes (who'd a thunk), and that platform sharing saves design, development and production costs (no one yet figured that out - wow).

Please, save the PR spin for politics; it might work there.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

A touch Paranoid?
This is what BMW engineers have done to make the Active Tourer competitive as a BMW. Also check the reviews of the MINI to see how that car is getting excellent results and praise.

The BMW among front-wheel-drive cars.

Like all BMW models, the new BMW 2 Series Active Tourer makes its mark with great driving dynamics and the sort of driving experience the brand is renowned for. The newly developed chassis, comprising a single-joint spring strut axle at the front and a multi-link rear axle, combines agility and directional precision with excellent handling stability and suspension comfort. The front drive axle in the new BMW 2 Series Active Tourer has undergone extensive fine-tuning, ensuring that it endows the car with optimum driving dynamics and wonderfully precise steering feedback. The electromechanical steering and the system’s functional arrangement combine to produce a driving sensation that is devoid of interfering torque steer.
The intelligent use of high-tensile and ultra-high-tensile multi-phase steels makes a decisive contribution to safety standards in the BMW 2 Series Active Tourer, while also helping to keep the vehicle’s weight down. Apart from being a crucial factor in the model’s exceptional driving dynamics, this lightweight engineering is just one among many BMW EfficientDynamics technology elements. These also include the Auto Start Stop function, Brake Energy Regeneration, Optimum Gearshift Indicator, on-demand operation of ancillary units and the integral Air Curtain, which uses two vertical air inlets in the front bumper to direct the airstream along the front wheels.

Compact and Sub-Compact cars make a lot of money , money which is then used for additional R&D and further innovations in manufacturing and lightweight engineering.

Compact and Sub-Compact are the highest growth segments in the industry. The segment continues to grow and with each manufacturer developing their own competitor you have to be competitive especially in packaging something the Active Tourer excels at and even more so with the arrival of the Gran Tourer which will offer seven seats , so far the X5 is the only BMW to do so and not everyone in Europe will be able to afford an X5.

With sub-compact and compact cars also needed because of a global shift to customer demand and further points of legislation over emissions you either adapt or die.

Regarding the 2er's future? , No further decision on where that car will sit in the future has been made. As of now it is media speculation. Right now is not the time to make an informed decision as BMW are currently in a production landslide for the new car. The most demanded model being the 220d with M Sport Packet.
Interestingly since both architectures are modular , UKL can be adapted to RWD but there is a compromise in loss of some packaging in the final product.
Or it can join the BMW-Toyota joint architecture.

All options are open but the car is off to a great start and will be further emphasised by the Cabrio later this Summer. When all 2er models are combined for overall sales you are talking about a very high profitability level for a combined volume and niche car.

All that sounds good from a marketing stand point... but We are CONSUMERS. We don't care that BMW wants more profits, specially if that profiteering means more un-focused cars.


So go on, continue to make cars for Asia & keep trying to offload/subsidize/market them here and telling us we should feel honored because the Active Tourer has "handling characteristics". (LOL.. I was laughing so hard at your reply I had to get a tissue to blow my nose.) Scott, do you even drive cars..? Do you know the difference between front wheel drive characteristics, & rear wheel drive characteristics..? Do you understand the importance, of the oxymoronic statement, that is FWD BMW..?

There should never be a FWD BMW, ever.
(We can buy a Ford for that.)



Secondly, you marketing speech didn't rebuttal the fact, that there is no reason to buy a BMW anymore, because in the near future, BMW's are now (openly admitted) unfocused BMWs, & now open for mass consumption. One chassis for all cars, means I will move to another brand. It means BMW no longer engineers car with an exact purpose, but based on what is left over/compromised from a single design. (Homogeneous fleet.)

Why sell a 2,3,4,5,6,7 series, if they are all the same chassis? Why not just rebrand the whole company as "BMW One" and just let the customer choose what cabin/body shell people want..? Didn't BMW learn from GM's debacle 20 years ago..? A Chevy is a Pontiac is a Oldsmobile is a Caddy, etc. No flavor, all bland because it the same recipe over and over and over.



Good luck Scott, because I (along with many enthusiasts) will never buy a BMW, that is not designed from the ground up. Anyone can buy a GM, discerning drivers buy BMWs... but when BMW themselves are no longer decerning, they will loose their core customers. No amount of marketing speak will bring us back.

[SCOTT26]

Is it that difficult to grasp how strategically important this is?
And how it benefits the BMW enthusiast who is asking for specific weight issues to be addressed?

Let me break it down.

BMW is a business and they need profits not only to progress as a business but revenue is needed to progress innovation and the product.
Research & Development at BMW will now be higher due to the income of combined MINI and BMW UKL models.

Talks are ongoing about another joint venture with existing partner regarding another FWD architecture to allow birth of a now needed MINI Rocketman.

The development of a new scaleable architecture within BMW is significant because it allows an intelligent mix of advanced material technology to be shared in a range of models giving BMW a technical and innovative advantage that will not only result in lighter cars , but in the cost to apply such materials to a wide range of vehicle structures and progress BMWs lead in making targets for incoming and future legislative proposals.

The Toyota-BMW collaboration is possibly the most exciting venture of them all.
Because it is a combined resource project. Toyota like BMW also produce Carbon Fibre in-house but not in the same volume as BMW (yet).
Toyota are well adversed in the use of lightweight materials and this is one of the major benefits because both companies can pool their resources in a scaleable flexible platform architecture.
The collaboration allows for development costs to be shared across this joint architecture which can result in a front,rear and mid-engined configuration surrounded in a pressed steel , aluminium , magnesium and Carbon mixed structure with Carbon tub clothed in Carbon body panels. An exotic blend of material reserved for high end super sports cars in the mid-entry replacement for a Z4 at a fraction of the cost.

The next BMW 6er falls under this venture as does potentially the next BMW 4er and Lexus RC. BMW will be responsible for their own design , engines as well as chassis and overall engineering but one scaleable platform for a range of sports cars using the latest application in material technology as well as the best available electric-hybrid applications is exciting.

No wonder competitors are envious.

The upcoming BMW M. Passion sports car project to be shown in 2016 could be developed alongside the next incarnation of the Lexus LFA.

[zoltans4]

this isn't all bad, and I think the customer ends up winning. Audi (as mentioned) implemented many cost saving initiatives and is able to bring cars to market at a nice cost savings.
BMW made up a little in package combining to be more competitive as well as making some BASE msrps low with the need to option basically everything.
There is a reason BMW and Merc are doing this, a $100k 650i can't be $150k in several years packing all the tech we want, some streamlining needs to be done and I don't think it is a complete lose on our end, unless maybe you are a 1 or 2 series driver?