[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

I have the same idea about having diffetent ICE SUVs
Why we need 8 SUVs?

We don’t need them. They’re all marketed to us.

I want an ev wagon, and bmw won’t sell me one. I spoke with another ev guy the other day and he said the same exact thing - he has a polestar because it’s at least a hatchback. BMW: 8 SUVs, 0 wagons.

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

We don’t need them. They’re all marketed to us.

I want an ev wagon, and bmw won’t sell me one. I spoke with another ev guy the other day and he said the same exact thing - he has a polestar because it’s at least a hatchback. BMW: 8 SUVs, 0 wagons.

I had a BMW wagon. I totaled it. I would have purchased another one, given the opportunity.

I guess I did what they wanted me to do: I bought a BMW SUV. But I would rather have had another wagon.

Not an EV yet for me, because of circumstances and driving patterns. But maybe next time.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Windshieldfarmer

Are you referencing Tesla only or BMW also. The Neue Klasse also appears to have minimal physical buttons. The industry is going this direction. My 87 year old father didn’t want push button start on his new car, but he was forced to acquiesce to a new reality. This will likely happen with physical buttons….on all cars. Resistance is Futile!!

...borg ha ha. I will really miss the 6MT ( or any MT ). There will be plenty in my lifetime to find and enjoy, but it would be a treat to have this technology, this EV underpinnings, with a manual transmission...

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by M3JetPilot

There are many grille designs that could have enabled that level of cooling. It didn’t have to be a 7 sided, full verticle, heptagon. That argument has been completely debunked in other forum threads.

As for sales numbers, look at the past M’s. There is no way to tell a legacy based on those numbers. The E30 probably has the most iconic status among the M3’s and it has the lowest production numbers. The F80 has the highest sales and I know of no one, including myself, who would argue it’s the most iconic M3. And I own and love the F80. Sales say nothing about legacy, styling rank, or much else other than effective marketing.

...It's notable that the grille in the G80/82 in this slide is obscured..

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by Frosty

As time progresses I think we'll come to see other materials that are not of animal origin as a new statement of luxury and sustainability.

The last couple thousand years or so colors me skeptical.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by Hansn

The "green" movement has lost touch with reality. What is greener than using an actual hide grown on a cow that eats grass? The fantasy is that we will stop raising cows then? They are domesticated animals, we lived side by side with them for thousands of years. I think its more than enough to offer the vegan CRAP as an option to the fanatics. Because thats what it is. Its garbage compared to real leather.




https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KvtT3U...FsbGluZyBjb3dz

Cows are a renewable resource. Yet we’re supposed to prefer fake leather made from petroleum? 🤦🏻‍♂️

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

Cows are a renewable resource. Yet we’re supposed to prefer fake leather made from petroleum? 🤦🏻‍♂️

You can’t compare thousands of years of animal husbandry with the industrialization of agriculture in the last 150 years, whereby hundreds of millions (billions) of animals are subjected to increasing levels of inhumane treatment and whose multiplication results in tremendous release of greenhouse gasses (methane, CO2). Not to mention the amount of water and feed used to raise those animals are orders of magnitude greater than could be used to grow plants to feed people directly. Raising cows for 8 billion people is not renewable, nice try though.

The auto industry is going EV to decarbonize, and achieving that goal also means using smarter materials. We can agree though that using petroleum based vinyls is antithetical to that goal, but there are other worthy goals in the same subset. And other materials that are plant based that are quite nice.

Honestly, using less of everything is ideal. That’s real conservatism IMO.

I’ll take my PETA hat off now.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

You can’t compare thousands of years of animal husbandry with the industrialization of agriculture in the last 150 years, whereby hundreds of millions (billions) of animals are subjected to increasing levels of inhumane treatment and whose multiplication results in tremendous release of greenhouse gasses (methane, CO2). Not to mention the amount of water and feed used to raise those animals are orders of magnitude greater than could be used to grow plants to feed people directly. Raising cows for 8 billion people is not renewable, nice try though.

The auto industry is going EV to decarbonize, and achieving that goal also means using smarter materials. We can agree though that using petroleum based vinyls is antithetical to that goal, but there are other worthy goals in the same subset. And other materials that are plant based that are quite nice.

Honestly, using less of everything is ideal. That’s real conservatism IMO.

I’ll take my PETA hat off now.

Perhaps you know the saying… “The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.”

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

I have the same idea about having diffetent ICE SUVs
Why we need 8 SUVs?

Why does that have anything to do with the engine, and why do you think BMW won’t have just as many EV models?

They’re trying to appeal to the widest audience for more sales. You can argue their strategy (no wagons etc) but they’re giving the market what it buys… SUVs.

[BimmerGuyFL78]

Forgive me for my poor photoshop, but it’s to give an idea of what the Neue Klasse sedan would look like with a grill centered like the Neue Klasse X SAV.

I HOPE BMW does something similar to this, as without it, it would look strange.

[BMWKLG]

Originally Posted by Frosty

As time progresses I think we'll come to see other materials that are not of animal origin as a new statement of luxury and sustainability.

I endorse this message. It's inevitable and auto companies are going to do what they want. The gag is that BMW will still sell regardless if the complainants don't support them.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

I have the same idea about having diffetent ICE SUVs
Why we need 8 SUVs?

You don't need 8 SUVs. You don't 'need' any SUVs.
Other people do and they buy them.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

You don't need 8 SUVs. You don't 'need' any SUVs.
Other people do and they buy them.

Very few people actually need SUV's. A mid-size hatchback will accomplish everything an SUV will for the average commuter while being more fuel/energy efficient, handle better, cost less, look better in most cases, etc. However today's consumer loves the SUV and that's what the majority of buyers want. It's why the top selling Porsches and Lamborghinis are SUV's. Businesses either offer consumers what they want or they go out of business.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

You don't need 8 SUVs. You don't 'need' any SUVs.
Other people do and they buy them.

Well do you think X1 and X2 are completely different cars?
What about X3 and X4?
How many people leave BMW behind if X5 exists and X6 not or X6 exists and X5 not?
I dont say there is no need to SUV.
All Im saying is 4 SUVs can make all BMW lovers who are looking for BMW SUV happy!
Instead of putting lots of efforts and money on 4 extra SUV, BMW can work on making a supercar to compete with other supecar makers ( R8, AMG roadster,Mclaren, etc)

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL78

Forgive me for my poor photoshop, but it’s to give an idea of what the Neue Klasse sedan would look like with a grill centered like the Neue Klasse X SAV.

I HOPE BMW does something similar to this, as without it, it would look strange.

I think that’s a big improvement! I like the X, I think the sedan is too plain as is.

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Very few people actually need SUV's. A mid-size hatchback will accomplish everything an SUV will for the average commuter while being more fuel/energy efficient, handle better, cost less, look better in most cases, etc. However today's consumer loves the SUV and that's what the majority of buyers want. It's why the top selling Porsches and Lamborghinis are SUV's. Businesses either offer consumers what they want or they go out of business.

There’s a flip side to this.

I had a ‘15 BMW 328xi wagon. It was totaled earlier this year.

If BMW offered a wagon in the United States at a price in the five digits, I would likely have purchased it.

It doesn’t. Not even in the six digits. (At least not yet.)0

I considered getting an M440xi GC. I couldn’t find one equipped the way I wanted it within a 2,000 mile radius.

Other manufacturers aren’t much help.

So, I got an X3 M40i. I like it more than I thought I would. But I do miss my wagon.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Instead of putting lots of efforts and money on 4 extra SUV, BMW can work on making a supercar to compete with other supecar makers ( R8, AMG roadster,Mclaren, etc)

That would be one of the worst business decisions in BMW history

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

That would be one of the worst business decisions in BMW history

😂

[Esteves]

from the images I've seen
I don't understand this change of strategy by BMW, I4, I5, I7, IX1 all similar to combustion engines, after the failure of Mercedes with electrics and with the few sales of the IX BMW wants to make the same mistake of making a car that doesn't look like a normal BMW...

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by Esteves

from the images I've seen

I don't understand this change of strategy by BMW, I4, I5, I7, IX1 all similar to combustion engines, after the failure of Mercedes with electrics and with the few sales of the IX BMW wants to make the same mistake of making a car that doesn't look like a normal BMW...

It's not a change in strategy...the strategy is the the vehicles you mention are bridge vehicles for this next generation. The next generation will be completely thought-thru as EVs, because that's when they're the best.

Nothing competed with Tesla because it was a genuine EV platform, no make had such a platform to work with, so Tesla took off. This is a multi-generational transition. It won't happen in one model cycle, but over many.

We're still in the minor leagues in EV land, and the Neue Klasse is for the first inning of the first game of season 2 of automotive baseball.

By 2035, ICE vehicles will be in rapid decline, contrary to what is said today.

BTW: Mercedes hasn't failed, they put something out to test it. They're figuring it all out too. But both BMW and MB and the rest with EVs on the market are years ahead of the likes of Toyota.

History certainly isn't written yet, no matter what the fossil fuel drinkers want you to believe.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

History certainly isn't written yet, no matter what the fossil fuel drinkers want you to believe.

How prophetic and antagonistic all at once! Bravo?

The evolution to an EV-based transportation market depends on technologies that don’t yet exist. When an EV is an objectively better value for car shoppers, they’ll buy them. That’s common sense. We’re not there yet, which is factually true.

I don’t know why people get their nickers in a knot thinking they should be subsidized and mandated into everyone’s lives?

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

subsidized and mandated into everyone’s lives?

And fossil fuels haven’t been for 100 years?