[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

Wow! 100% spot on. As a former Porsche sales person, you're right.

I was only a Certified Porsche Sales Representative for 19-years! I think my cards said "Gold" something or other.

Winner of the Porsche national product knowledge contest some time back in the '80s or '90s.

Thanks for your comment.

[CachacoF80]

Disappointing, I enjoyed it a lot in 2018.
I guess when my wife's X3 lease expires in 2021, I'll have to consider a Volvo. Would be nice to do a Nordic trip.

[spuntyb]

Never got the chance to do it. Was hoping to with my next M

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

Another CCP Virus fatality. RIP European Delivery program.

I'd imagine if it was covid related, they would end it immediately instead of planning more deliveries through to Sep 2020. I'd guess it's driven by business considerations.

[9M71]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

It's actually worse from the dealer standpoint than the suppositions posted here—and a loser for many customers, too, from several perspectives.

First, I have been a BMW owner since 1971. I've been heavily involved with BMW CCA for over 40-years and was the founder of one chapter over 30-years ago. Second, I have been employed by our local BMW dealership off-and-on since the 2002 was a model and not just a year. I have a broad perspective, and I love BMWs.

[...]

This is a very insightful post especially for someone who has been in the business for so long. And being in the business for so long, and as described, you've felt the effect of instant information sharing the internet has had on sales job such as car dealers and shopping for the best price. Unfortunately the world may be trending towards a more transparent pricing structure, such as Tesla to an extent where what you see is what you pay (minus the fact that they can't get their act together and keep adjusting prices). Perhaps the variable part of a sales salary will be compensated based on other "customer satisfaction" oriented figures. Personally i hate shopping for a car, and am guilty of having wasted a salesperson's time when i already know i'm going to get it via a forum "connection" that is giving a deal below invoice. If dealers/companies can be more transparent with the pricing structure, that will level out the playing field and also weasel out some of the more "slimeball" salespeople out there, really leaving only those who are passionate about the brand to stay. If we get prices out of the way, perhaps we could focus more about the sales experience (including Euro Delivery ) and vehicle itself, versus wasting hours going back and forth at the dealership over the bottom dollar. Just my 0.02 and rambling...

[SabineBimmer]

Originally Posted by PaulM

I find it quite funny when so many of you vow to move away from BMW just because you can't get the car with ED (maybe a re-alignement of priorities forced on by this very political virus is needed).
I'm honestly curious, what cars would you get to replace the 340/440, M2/3/4? And don't give me that BS about getting a Porsche. If you had the ability to get a Porsche, you already would have (I know I would have).
I seriously tried to answer that question recently, and guess what I found out? All other options out there, in the same price range, are garbage.

GT350 or C8 Corvette instead of M2

[oldsport]

Had bookmarked the countless ED threads and hoped to make it happen next year--along with a long-awaited family trip. One of the incentives for buying a new M2C and gone on such short notice.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

It's actually worse from the dealer standpoint than the suppositions posted here—and a loser for many customers, too, from several perspectives . . . Good riddance to the program!

BMWCCA1 - you're a tribute to the BMW brand and a great historian for us all. But I have to very respectfully disagree with many of your conclusions.

You have a few years on me I think, but I'm an old-timer too. Through those years, I've learned that change is constant and consumers are going to purchase the way that they want to purchase. We as business people can fight consumers' desires and lose, or we can figure out how to change our business models to meet customers' new demands. That's what BMW did when they - OMG! - produced their first SUV (remember that firestorm??). And they're doing it now by ending the ED program.

If I fault BMW for anything, it's for continuing to discount ED. That's just nuts! My EDs were incredible experiences that in any other world, would have (should have) cost me money. I never did EDs to save money, and I never did save money. I did it for the fun factor. I'd like to see ED reborn with normal dealer incentives and a cost to consumers. I would have (and will) spend $500 or $1000 for the ED experience.

[white2abbit]

Originally Posted by PaulM

I find it quite funny when so many of you vow to move away from BMW just because you can't get the car with ED (maybe a re-alignement of priorities forced on by this very political virus is needed).
I'm honestly curious, what cars would you get to replace the 340/440, M2/3/4? And don't give me that BS about getting a Porsche. If you had the ability to get a Porsche, you already would have (I know I would have).
I seriously tried to answer that question recently, and guess what I found out? All other options out there, in the same price range, are garbage.

I don't think it's that simple.

I actually do own a Porsche, and will likely buy another one, but European Delivery in a 2-door GT car isn't nearly as practical as it is in an M car.

After my experience last summer, I was planning to ED a car every 1-3 years for the foreseeable future, just because of how amazing the experience was.

But I think the real competition here is the pre-owned market. Maybe I'm alone and most people need to buy something brand new, but 90% of the reason I went with the M2C was so could European Deliver it. I think the biggest competition to a new BMW is...a pre-owned BMW. If I can't pickup a car in Germany I'm much more likely to purchase an older (clean) BMW.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think a lot of enthusiasts think the same way. I'd definitely be more inclined to test drive other cars too (Mustang, etc.).

As I mentioned before though, I'll still love BMW (the brand) and BMWs (the cars), but my incentive for buying a brand new one is now non-existent, pretty much.

I've also rented cars in Europe many many times, but good luck finding a manual, and cars can cost almost $1/km while you're over there if you go over their usually very low mileage limits. Still a fun time, but it's not the same.

[qba335i]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

Wow! 100% spot on. As a former Porsche sales person, you're right.

Re: Porsche experience - it's wonderful as well.

As a sales person you have to create value/experience to justify the higher price. People are willing to pay if they see value. The internet made it easy to shop around - if you can't compete on price, you have to compete on service.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by Kuato2084

I'm glad I did an ED with my F80, but to be honest it wasn't anything too extravagant for me. I've been to Munich and BMW Welt many times prior. I think taking a trip to Munich and renting an ///M car from BMW Welt is just as good if not better because the rentals are already past break-in. When my F80 ED was first revealed at the pickup level of Welt it was definitely a memorable moment for me though!

I can see Germany tourism taking a small hit, as I visited small towns in Germany that I wouldn't had wasn't for ED and remaining within Germany.

Their is always a possibly of its return in a few years just like the return of MSD. I sure the GM/GSM/CA's are ecstatic as they attempt to save their out dated sales model.

This could come back to bite BMW NA and AG, as I always saw ALOT of M's being picked at the Welt by US customers. The ED M's are higher profit for both BMW AG and BMW NA, but not for the dealership. Just like the overpriced M3/M4 CS and 8 series that requires ridiculous flagship money to sell.

[lax01]

Had this on the bucket list for an upcoming BMW purchase as my M2 comes out of warranty - guess I'll go back to Porsche and give them my money!

[CosmosMpower]

Well guess my M2C was the last BMW I'll be buying then. Was on the fence for the G8X M3 but now i'm definitely out without the ED program/discount.

Did my 16 M3 on ED and my 19M2C on ED and would've done my 17 M2 on ED but the cars were so hard to get some dealers wouldn't do it.

[Murf993]

Porsche still has it available. It seems to me that BMW doesn't really want the premium service any longer.

https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/mo...imatevacacion/

[seis-speed]

I was already planning my G80 ED with my kids.

I purchased my F80 and M2 with European Delivery. Amazing memories with family, that we will never forget. I have my European Plates hanging in my garage and at my office. One of the coolest experiences I have ever done.

I have also flown to Europe and rented a car, it is not the same, not even close....

My days buying new BMW's might be over.

[The J-Man]

My first (and only) ED led to people in my family and friends buying new BMWs after I told them about the experience. 6 local sales and 1 ED as a result of my brand ambassadorship, not to mention the 4 other BMWs I have purchased since my first ED.

To say that 500 customers per year isn't enough to keep the program going is understating the significance of the program as a marketing tool. Further, BMW caused interest in the ED program to drop by altering the pricing to make US delivery more attractive, and then they go and cancel the program based on lack of demand? Lame.

At the end of the day, though, you can still fly to Munich, rent a new BMW, go to the Welt, do a factory tour, and drive all over the place. Not exactly the same, but it gets you close enough.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Porsche should've already been attractive. If somebody can afford a Porsche comfortably (...and candidly tout that as so), why are they driving a BMW in the first place?!? Surely ED isn't enough incentive to forego the P-Car.

Different kind of cars. Porsche doesn't make a fun small/medium size sedan like a M3. Your only choices are a 2+2 coupe 911 or a giant ugly Panamera or a SUV.

[white2abbit]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

I was already planning my G80 ED with my kids.

I purchased my F80 and M2 with European Delivery. Amazing memories with family, that we will never forget. I have my European Plates hanging in my garage and at my office. One of the coolest experiences I have ever done.

I have also flown to Europe and rented a car, it is not the same, not even close....

My days buying new BMW's might be over.

Well said. I too have my Euro plate hanging in my office. Renting is not even close, mostly because you're not going to get a manual, and you'll be extremely limited on mileage.

I think to rent a FUN car and drive it as much as you want for about a month you'd be looking at about ~$20K (and easily more), vs very little with ED.

I rented an S4 from Sixt in 2018 for a week for about $1k, but that's about as cool of a car as you'll get if you want unlimited mileage. I rented a BMW M4 in 2015 and it cost $1/km over the 100km included (and manual wasn't an option). I put 7,500km on my M2C when I picked it up, so that'd cost about $7.5k in mileage alone.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

You know people here working for dealership who have become a Euro Delivery mill offering huge discounts including below cost to make their quotas. So when you come into my dealership wanting to test drive my M3 Competition and asking me questions about how the car should be ordered, knowing the whole time you intend to place your order with a broker of a mega dealership, you are wasting my time—as nicely as I will still treat you.

And the dealer, as stated by others, won't get their AVP money to offset discounts. They also have to give up an allocation of the same model in order to place your Euro Delivery order if it is for any M-car of other hard-to-get model. I give up a car to match your $300-below-cost-deal from some desk-jockey in DC and I loose one car I could sell to a local customer who may really want one. You come to me to test-drive a stick-shift M-model no one in the metropolitan area stocks, knowing full well you're gonna order it from the lowest offer. And I would lose another allocation to sell you a car by matching your deal. But I still let you drive it, didn't I? And I treated you the way a BMW buyer wants to be treated, didn't I? And you know who you are!.

So, if the car can be purchased for less under US delivery or even Performance Center Delivery, why not take a trip to Europe, rent a BMW, drive the 'Ring, and not subject your new car to the threat of damage, or the delay of usually 60-days or more between paying for it and having it at home? Is it the photo op you'll miss? With PCD you get to drive BMW's car at the PC track, not yours. They pay for your hotel room and food for two people, and it costs you nothing. You get all your discounts and your travel time and expense is minimal.

Those are the reasons I see the program for US customers dwindling. That's why the dealers don't promote it. That's why the customer pays more for it, and that's why fewer and fewer opt for it every year. It's similar to those who complain about the demise of small businesses and bemoan the Wal-Marting of America, and yet they'll travel cross town to save 50¢ on toilet paper.

I see regular customers coming into our service department who I sold their first M3 to 25-years ago. But now they're having us service the latest M3 they bought from a faceless dealership 2-hours away where they've never been and wouldn't trust to service their car because our store wasn't willing to lose $500 and an M3 allocation to match their internet pricing. And I still smile and shake their hand.

These days we'll tip our stimulus check for a carry-out meal during a pandemic to help restaurant workers getting more in unemployment than they were earning before the pandemic, but we'll still take hours of a salesperson's time knowing we're not buying a car from them.

Good riddance to the program! If BMW wants to know how to do it right and make everyone happy, they can simply ask me. They tell us regularly how the new generation of BMW buyers are more interested in experiences than relationships. Let me provide a big participation trophy for you. Or maybe a program that helps you get the car you want and the Euro Delivery experience without wasting a salesperson's time and without the lopsided distribution that encourages larger impersonal dealerships to blow out inventory we can't even get enough of.

I sold a Hockenheim Silver M2 Competition manual-transmission off the showroom floor to a disabled vet yesterday. We worked with her for hours to make sure we could do what she wanted us to do in terms of trading a new car she was upside-down in, and getting financing that worked. We stayed 2-hours after closing, but when she and her husband left, we knew they'd be loving their first BMW because we treated them the way we'd want to be treated ourselves. And I've been doing it that same way years before I drove home the first E30 M3 the day it arrived at our dealership.

These days most BMW buyers are getting what they deserve, and that's usually the lowest price with the lowest level of service. And then they complain about the dealers. Days like yesterday make me glad I haven't yet chosen to retire. But that doesn't happen enough to keep me in the business much longer.

WOW, your post is spot on explaining the problem with the car salesman's these days.

If your leasing every 3 years, service means sh*t as you'll have 3 oil changes and minor service items— the big items don't occur until the customer turns in the lease and they are already in their new car.

I hope you had a great commission from your M2 comp sale yesterday that took you hours, or would you rather have your customer e-mail you his specs, selling a P1 car that costs zero floor interest expense at a rock bottom price, at 4 of these sales per hour, which would be 16 sales instead of the 1 sale yesterday?

I'm glad your not my CA.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by qba335i

As a sales person you have to create value/experience to justify the higher price. People are willing to pay if they see value. The internet made it easy to shop around - if you can't compete on price, you have to compete on service.

I may be seen as arguing both sides here, but although we like to think and say that we're willing to pay for service, we rarely do, especially Americans. I remember hosting my first consumer seminar way back in the early-90s. When asked, almost everyone said that they'd pay more for good service. Later in the day, we changed the question, asking each participant to describe their last like product purchase. Almost everyone (proudly) described how they found or negotiated a great price. Service was never mentioned.

[mic_crispy]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

I was already planning my G80 ED with my kids.

I purchased my F80 and M2 with European Delivery. Amazing memories with family, that we will never forget. I have my European Plates hanging in my garage and at my office. One of the coolest experiences I have ever done.

I have also flown to Europe and rented a car, it is not the same, not even close....

My days buying new BMW's might be over.

Exactly my situation / thoughts. This sucks.

[WESTCOASTTRADING]

This leaves me Porsche European for next car.