[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by NEFARIOUS

Says the person who is posting in the off-topic forums himself

well said! hahaha

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

College was a great time. I remember some of it.

Whoa...look who's back! Haven't seen you around for months!

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

Whoa...look who's back! Haven't seen you around for months!

Yeah I've been mingling on car enthusiast forums.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Let's calculate the Opportunity cost.
15 year comparison.
(This is just for illustration/fun comparison only.)

1. TUITION 1994-1999
Under
3year + 3summer semester tuition+fees+Room and Board.
Let's say I spent about $4500 total per semester.
$4500x6= $27,000 for approximate total $ spent on undergrad.
Grad
3500/q x 9q = $31,500

~$58500 spent on school in 5years


2. JOB @ minimum wage instead of school calculation.
~I was making more, but let's assume I had a minimum wage job if I DID NOT goto school. $7.25/hr x40hr x 52week x5= $75,400 in 5yrs Disposal income into saving at 25% after tax is about $18,850 in 5 years. (living with mama/dada)

3. I am dumb and just decide to invest all $18,850 in Apple.

4, After I graduate from college, I make $100,000/yr (fairly high estimate about 15 years ago). Let's say 110,000 after raise and etc.



1999-2014

School - ($110,000/yr x 15yrs)- 58,500 tuition= $1,591,500 earned gross

No School -
$18,850 saved into AAPL at 1999
~11750 shares owned at $1.60/sr on June 1999
NOW 2014- $92.18/sr x 11750sr= $1,083,115 made off of AAPL stock

$7.25/hr x40hr x 52week x15yrs=$226,200 earned gross

Total earned for NO SCHOOL - $1,083,115+$226,200=$1,309,315



NO SCHOOL is 1.3mil, and SCHOOL is 1.6mil
However, cap gains tax is ~15%, but fed income tax is about 28% 110k/yr.

CONCLUSION: I don't give a flying crap where you went to school nor how much you make. Invest wisely with your disposable.

Not sure if this is for real, but god I hope you're not serious. It's almost as stupid as looking up the mega millions numbers and saying no school and correct lottery numbers, better than school.

Unless you just bought the stock and were oblivious to its value, you would have sold LONG before it had a chance to become worth over a million dollars.

[MrPrena]

It said " (This is just for illustration/fun comparison only.) "

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

Not sure if this is for real, but god I hope you're not serious. It's almost as stupid as looking up the mega millions numbers and saying no school and correct lottery numbers, better than school.

Unless you just bought the stock and were oblivious to its value, you would have sold LONG before it had a chance to become worth over a million dollars.

[NemesisX]

Yahoo finance suggests that Apple stock was $6.88/share in June of 1999. Where did you get $1.60/share, MrPrena? Not that it really matters. Just wondering.

[MFL]

I would say that you should avoid college until you absolutely KNOW what you want to do. If you don't know, spend a few years in the work force and figure it out. If college is an absolute must, go with a business, economics, or political science degree as either will take you far if you're an ambitious person.

Either way, I'd focus/encourage the youth to leave high school with a tangible skills that they can leverage at least temporarily to assist them with paying for school and mitigating student loan debt.

I chose not to pursue college and if I want to move up the corporate ladder, I will hit a hard limit eventually should I pursue director roles. But that does not stop me from starting my own business at some point in time either.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Yahoo finance suggests that Apple stock was $6.88/share in June of 1999. Where did you get $1.60/share, MrPrena? Not that it really matters. Just wondering.

Recent post split price. (7-1)
BTW< i did not buy AAPL till 2003 and sold it yr later.
The example was just an example.

[SilverII]

i'd say so.

[Bimmer Nerd]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

Let's calculate the Opportunity cost.
15 year comparison.
(This is just for illustration/fun comparison only.)

1. TUITION 1994-1999
Under
3year + 3summer semester tuition+fees+Room and Board.
Let's say I spent about $4500 total per semester.
$4500x6= $27,000 for approximate total $ spent on undergrad.
Grad
3500/q x 9q = $31,500

~$58500 spent on school in 5years


2. JOB @ minimum wage instead of school calculation.
~I was making more, but let's assume I had a minimum wage job if I DID NOT goto school. $7.25/hr x40hr x 52week x5= $75,400 in 5yrs Disposal income into saving at 25% after tax is about $18,850 in 5 years. (living with mama/dada)

3. I am dumb and just decide to invest all $18,850 in Apple.

4, After I graduate from college, I make $100,000/yr (fairly high estimate about 15 years ago). Let's say 110,000 after raise and etc.



1999-2014

School - ($110,000/yr x 15yrs)- 58,500 tuition= $1,591,500 earned gross

No School -
$18,850 saved into AAPL at 1999
~11750 shares owned at $1.60/sr on June 1999
NOW 2014- $92.18/sr x 11750sr= $1,083,115 made off of AAPL stock

$7.25/hr x40hr x 52week x15yrs=$226,200 earned gross

Total earned for NO SCHOOL - $1,083,115+$226,200=$1,309,315



NO SCHOOL is 1.3mil, and SCHOOL is 1.6mil
However, cap gains tax is ~15%, but fed income tax is about 28% 110k/yr.

CONCLUSION: I don't give a flying crap where you went to school nor how much you make. Invest wisely with your disposable.

Sums up this thread pretty nicely. Not everybody needs college education to achieve success.
Wise man once said "College is not about the education, but rather all about the experience. You can gain more knowledge at the price of a library card."

[Sedan_Clan]

Forego college completely and find a rich sugar momma/daddy. There it is!

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by MFL

If college is an absolute must, go with a business, economics, or political science degree as either will take you far if you're an ambitious person.

Pretty sure a poli sci degree is absolutely worthless unless you plan to go to law school.

[bimmerfrk]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Pretty sure a poli sci degree is absolutely worthless unless you plan to go to law school.

Truth spoken here. That was my major and a total waste of 100k. I work in IT now......

College makes you a human being. It wont teach you how to get a job and be successful in life.

[MrPrena]

I think I demonstrated the opportunity cost of not going to college.
This time , I will demonstrate why undergrad is important.

Most of people will have more than enough education to get a good jobs with basic calculus and some other math tools w/ applications. (Heck, even freshman/soph high school algebra is enough for some jobs)
However, there are some jobs which requires majority of education and most of math from undergrad.

I had that kinda job for 5-6 years, and it wasn't fun at all.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by bimmerfrk

Truth spoken here. That was my major and a total waste of 100k. I work in IT now......

College makes you a human being. It wont teach you how to get a job and be successful in life.

Imagine investing that $100k back then into something else.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

Imagine investing that $100k back then into something else.

Most people don't have the cost of their potential education sitting around as a lump sum to invest or spend on something else though.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

Imagine investing that $100k back then into something else.

Imagine being able to save and invest $100k per year for 25-30 years. That usually requires AGIs in excess of $400k or $500k which usually is afforded to a select few jobs that require college degrees. Think top echelon specialists in the medical field, patent lawyers, or management consultants (to name a few). You won't get a job at McKinsey with a high school degree.

Your typical chemical or petroleum engineer will probably top out at around $140k-$200k/year as far as mid-career salaries go, not enough to save and invest $100k/year but still more than the typical high school graduate.

You can think up thousands of hypothetical scenarios, but the point is that there are more hypothetical scenarios that point to the value of a college degree than not. The median numbers don't lie. I don't exactly recall them off the top of my head but it's something like $40,000 for high school graduates, $60,000 for a bachelor's, $70,000 for a master's, $80,000 for PhDs, and $100,000 for "professional" degrees (M.D., J.D., M.B.A.)

Of course, median salaries in isolation are useless unless you know how much you're paying for college and how much income you're forsaking by choosing to go to college (and loss of potential capital gains, think MrPrena's accurate but highly atypical example with Apple), but there is always going to be some break-even point and it's your job to figure out what that is based on your own expectations of what you think you can achieve with a college degree versus a high school diploma alone (or less).

[MrPrena]

I don't mind receiving 30-40% of graduates or post graduates. In fact, I don't mind making less than HS graduate professionals. As long as job is extremely easy, and only work 40hr/week or less.
I am tired of 70hr+ jobs.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Most people don't have the cost of their potential education sitting around as a lump sum to invest or spend on something else though.

Agreed and I can't be sure if any of that $100k was grant money or not, but I'm comparing the overall ROI dollar to dollar. He did whatever it took to invest $100k over x years for college and yielded a "waste of money" return.

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Imagine being able to save and invest $100k per year for 25-30 years. That usually requires AGIs in excess of $400k or $500k which usually is afforded to a select few jobs that require college degrees. Think top echelon specialists in the medical field, patent lawyers, or management consultants (to name a few). You won't get a job at McKinsey with a high school degree.

Your typical chemical or petroleum engineer will probably top out at around $140k-$200k/year as far as mid-career salaries go, not enough to save and invest $100k/year but still more than the typical high school graduate.

You can think up thousands of hypothetical scenarios, but the point is that there are more hypothetical scenarios that point to the value of a college degree than not. The median numbers don't lie. I don't exactly recall them off the top of my head but it's something like $40,000 for high school graduates, $60,000 for a bachelor's, $70,000 for a master's, $80,000 for PhDs, and $100,000 for "professional" degrees (M.D., J.D., M.B.A.)

Of course, median salaries in isolation are useless unless you know how much you're paying for college and how much income you're forsaking by choosing to go to college (and loss of potential capital gains, think MrPrena's accurate but highly atypical example with Apple), but there is always going to be some break-even point and it's your job to figure out what that is based on your own expectations of what you think you can achieve with a college degree versus a high school diploma alone (or less).

I get the tone that you may think I'm against higher education. Just to clarify, I am totally for higher ed as long as it is planned out as opposed to it just seems like the next thing to do.

I got my B.A. and it was not necessary for my current career, however towards the end, I wish I had majored in another field as I gain more wisdom.

Aside from all of that, I have my own business I run on the side of my current career that should soon result in a very early retirement.

[PSUSMU]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

Aside from all of that, I have my own business I run on the side of my current career that should soon result in a very early retirement.

Orly? What is it? (srs curious)

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by PSUSMU

Orly? What is it? (srs curious)

Music business. (royalties, licensing, distribution deals etc...)

[thebigcheese]

Im going to college for the experience and to further my education. Im lucky enough not to have to pay for it and Im very thankful for that. I really know what i want to do and Im looking forward to it. Even though the saying is, "Its not the grades you make, but the hands you shake."