[premier3is]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There a bunch of things that go into play and it's not black and white.

Mistaking a gun for a taser when you are trained in the field and it is your job, inexcusable in any manner. A life was lost because she failed at her job. Should be tossed in jail like any other person would.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by premier3is

Mistaking a gun for a taser when you are trained in the field and it is your job, inexcusable in any manner. A life was lost because she failed at her job. Should be tossed in jail like any other person would.

This isn't the first time something like this has happened. Muscle memory happens without thought, like driving or throwing punches & kicks (..as a trained fighter). It's an easy mistake to make when there's tension, adrenaline, etc. I'm not taking away from the mistake that officer made, but she wasn't the first to do it and she won't be the last.

She is deserving of her due process just like anybody else.

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Замечательные �кидки на ли�ты из AISI �плавов. К�тати, в�е �ИСИ трубы тоже могут быть у�пешно
оформлены �о �кидкой!!!
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Ð*екомендую приобреÑ�ти неражавеющие трубы пока на них Ð�КЦИЯ

В каталоге можно более полно ознакомит�� � продукцией в том чи�ле �о �тальным прокатом.
Спа�ибо что потратили минутку внимани�.
С�ылка на каталог

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Sad loss of life. Better tactics might've saved this officer's life.

Good call from Captain Obvious.

But the driver had the confidence of the cop; spidy sense didn't save him.
So we can accept guys driving around with loaded AKs, or we can seek to lessen such unneeded behavior, using other ways to save a cops life.

Murf

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Good call from Captain Obvious.

But the driver had the confidence of the cop; spidy sense didn't save him.
So we can accept guys driving around with loaded AKs, or we can seek to lessen such unneeded behavior, using other ways to save a cops life.

Murf

Just an observation, your "Captain Obvious" remark is the kind of thing you do that ramp up these exchanges from comfortable discussions to abuse.

You have a track record on this forum regarding guns, and that's fine as it's your opinion. The problem the US has and Canada by our physical closeness and porous border is a proliferation of illegal guns. Those guns that are in the hands of criminals aren't going away in any or our lifetimes. That is a whole other debate that frankly isn't worth the oxygen.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Just an observation, your "Captain Obvious" remark is the kind of thing you do that ramp up these exchanges from comfortable discussions to abuse.

You have a track record on this forum regarding guns, and that's fine as it's your opinion. The problem the US has and Canada by our physical closeness and porous border is a proliferation of illegal guns. Those guns that are in the hands of criminals aren't going away in any or our lifetimes. That is a whole other debate that frankly isn't worth the oxygen.

Yes, he does it purposely, all while ignoring the fact that there are thousands of gun laws on the books........many which already prohibit things that took place in that video. He fails to comprehend that criminals don't abide by gun laws (...or any laws for that matter). No law was going to save that officer's life. His only chance was better tactics/back-up.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yes, he does it purposely, all while ignoring the fact that there are thousands of gun laws on the books........many which already prohibit things that took place in that video. He fails to comprehend that criminals don't abide by gun laws (...or any laws for that matter). No law was going to save that officer's life. His only chance was tactics/back-up.

I hate seeing things like this happen, hopefully there will be some lessons learned.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

I hate seeing things like this happen, hopefully there will be some lessons learned.

Agreed! I tend to take something away from every incident involving law enforcement.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Just an observation, your "Captain Obvious" remark is the kind of thing you do that ramp up these exchanges from comfortable discussions to abuse.

You have a track record on this forum regarding guns, and that's fine as it's your opinion. The problem the US has and Canada by our physical closeness and porous border is a proliferation of illegal guns. Those guns that are in the hands of criminals aren't going away in any or our lifetimes. That is a whole other debate that frankly isn't worth the oxygen.

(I think I should have called him Captain Avoidance.)
That is the oxygen, or the elephant in the room, if you will.
Approaching from the other side of the car is a very limited solution, & frankly, hardly the concern of citizens.
How did the legal guns become illegal guns? Not by themselves; a person helped.
In the US, the excuse for inaction is always "2A", until the shooting, when it becomes "...he was crazy & ...!"
Where is the action in between? You know, the hard part?

Murf

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Agreed! I tend to take something away from every incident involving law enforcement.

I'll never say "I've seen it all", I haven't but not much surprises me anymore. I do miss the job, greatest show on earth. I was constantly learning and when I was training new officers I reenforced this concept, always learn and watch how other coppers do things. I never had all the answers, I knew what worked for me but I was always looking for better safer ways to do things.

I was assault dozens of times, and I always learned from that and changed/up'd my game as a result.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yes, he does it purposely, all while ignoring the fact that there are thousands of gun laws on the books........many which already prohibit things that took place in that video. He fails to comprehend that criminals don't abide by gun laws (...or any laws for that matter). No law was going to save that officer's life. His only chance was better tactics/back-up.

Tell that to the Australians.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

(I think I should have called him Captain Avoidance.)
That is the oxygen, or the elephant in the room, if you will.
Approaching from the other side of the car is a very limited solution, & frankly, hardly the concern of citizens.
How did the legal guns become illegal guns? Not by themselves; a person helped.
In the US, the excuse for inaction is always "2A", until the shooting, when it becomes "...he was crazy & ...!"
Where is the action in between?

Murf

Again with the name calling, why?

You can not appreciate the subtleties of this type of a situation until you've walked up to a car full of asshole on the side of the road in the middle of the night by yourself. The tactics are subtle, fluid and can be dynamic. You have to make subtle choices/decision and you often aren't aware you're making them. Approaching a car on the passenger side has never been something I thought made sense. There are some who swear by it. From my view standing behind the drivers left shoulder forcing him to be off balance to see you is an advantage. I hate seeing coppers leaning in the drivers window or standing directly beside the driver's door. You are in a kill zone, and are asking for trouble if someone want's to give it to you.

I won't get into the illegal possession of guns with you as it will only end up going in circles like every other time....as I've said in another post, I try to learn from past experience and modify my behaviour moving forward.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Again with the name calling, why?

You can not appreciate the subtleties of this type of a situation until you've walked up to a car full of asshole on the side of the road in the middle of the night by yourself. The tactics are subtle, fluid and can be dynamic. You have to make subtle choices/decision and you often aren't aware you're making them. Approaching a car on the passenger side has never been something I thought made sense. There are some who swear by it. From my view standing behind the drivers left shoulder forcing him to be off balance to see you is an advantage. I hate seeing coppers leaning in the drivers window or standing directly beside the driver's door. You are in a kill zone, and are asking for trouble if someone want's to give it to you.
....as I've said in another post, I try to learn from past experience and modify my behaviour moving forward.

Exactly

The public has some nerve asking anybody to do this job! Basically because some think we need a gun in every kitchen. Or ten.
I guess we will not discuss how we got here, nor how to get out. But don't be under the illusion that this machostupid locker room talk is anything but that.

Murf

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Again with the name calling, why?....

I think I saw intellectual laziness.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Exactly

The public has some nerve asking anybody to do this job! Basically because some think we need a gun in every kitchen. Or ten.
I guess we will not discuss how we got here, nor how to get out. But don't be under the illusion that this machostupid locker room talk is anything but that.

Murf

There has been discussion, debate and comment at naussium about "how we got here", every law enforcement agency in the developed world in partnership with prosecutors are constantly working on how to deal with illegal guns among all the other crime. No point in discussing this with you because I know what you'll trot out "Australia" for example.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Murf993

There has been discussion, debate and comment at naussium about "how we got here", every law enforcement agency in the developed world in partnership with prosecutors are constantly working on how to deal with illegal guns among all the other crime. No point in discussing this with you because I know what you'll trot out "Australia" for example.

And I know we can't discuss too far here.
But if we aren't too provincial, we can learn from what works elsewhere, even Australia (or the International Association of Chiefs of Police).
Or we can trot out the hand wringing.

Murf

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Again with the name calling, why?

You can not appreciate the subtleties of this type of a situation until you've walked up to a car full of asshole on the side of the road in the middle of the night by yourself. The tactics are subtle, fluid and can be dynamic. You have to make subtle choices/decision and you often aren't aware you're making them. Approaching a car on the passenger side has never been something I thought made sense. There are some who swear by it. From my view standing behind the drivers left shoulder forcing him to be off balance to see you is an advantage. I hate seeing coppers leaning in the drivers window or standing directly beside the driver's door. You are in a kill zone, and are asking for trouble if someone want's to give it to you.

I won't get into the illegal possession of guns with you as it will only end up going in circles like every other time....as I've said in another post, I try to learn from past experience and modify my behaviour moving forward.

Agreed!


I ignore him, but thanks for articulating my thoughts.

[mahalom3]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

Why would you have your gun out for a routine traffic stop? Seems excessive.

When we put our lives on the line everyday and every night for the people in our city and community whom we do not know. I will do everything to protect myself and go home to my family. The driver or passenger will never know I have my gun out because I have down low and behind my right thigh. I love the public's perception but it is different when they are the victim.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Agreed!


I ignore him, but thanks for articulating my thoughts.

There's a song for that:

"I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean, d-doo yeah

Shove me in the shallow water
Before I get too deep"

Clan ignores me after he gets smacked upside his head, so....

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

There's a song for that:

"I'm not aware of too many things
I know what I know, if you know what I mean, d-doo yeah

Shove me in the shallow water
Before I get too deep"

Clan ignores me after he gets smacked upside his head, so....

You are really immature.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You are really immature.

Oh Smack!

(why always the character assassination?)

[mahalom3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The head bang before the fight....



...I was so annoyed. It wasn't even my handle. I was assisting my beat partner who was overwhelmed. The call went out as a trespassing call involving a known meth head/frequent flyer. I ended up with a 5150/assault on a peace officer/fire fighter situation.

I call it a love tap lol...