[tiltmode43]

Cadillac V-Series coming in hot with taunts to the top German luxury performance manufacturers. Thoughts? Sorry if repost

‏@CadillacEurope
Hey, @BMW #M, sorry we missed you this morning. Don't worry, we left you some donuts. #SIAG #VSeries #DareGreatly



‏@CadillacEurope
Hey, @BMW #M, coming back for sure later this year. En route to Neckarsulm now. #SIAG #VSeries #DareGreatly



‏@CadillacEurope
Wow, that sign is impressive. You've really got the 'Cadillac' of buildings here, @Audi_Sport. See you at #SIAG!



@CadillacEurope
Guten Tag, @MercedesAMG. Stopped by to practice our German, but it looks like you’ve left for #SIAG. See you there!

[DocWeatherington]

Unlikely.. it still is built upon a Cadillac in which the base cars have design issues that increased performance can't fix.

[CirrusSR22]

Likely. The Cadillac ATS & CTS chassis' are clearly ahead of any of the competing German cars. They needed better engines and transmissions, and now they'll have them in the V cars.

This is why the German cars can't handle like a Cadillac. Just like in their base forms, the Cadillac is far lighter.

2016 CTS-V: 4,145 lbs.
2015 M5: 4,354 lbs. (4,387 auto)
2015 M6 Sedan: 4,430 lbs.
2015 E63 AMG: 4,387 lbs.
2015 E63 AMG S : 4,431 lbs.
2015 RS7: 4,475 lbs.

[BMW269]

Interesting. Have to admit German premiums brands are overrated.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Unlikely.. it still is built upon a Cadillac in which the base cars have design issues that increased performance can't fix.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The CTS-V Sport is already a stellar car that handily beat all of the competition.
http://wot.motortrend.com/1311_cadil...0_f_sport.html

I know Cadillac is trying to completely redesign their image and brand. So far, they have some very good products. It's a very ambitious project and one that is the most difficult to do. We'll have to see where they go from here. It's up to them. If they pull through with what they've done so far and keep the momentum going, it is possible. However, history has shown that they won't.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The CTS-V Sport is already a stellar car that handily beat all of the competition.
http://wot.motortrend.com/1311_cadil...0_f_sport.html

I know Cadillac is trying to completely redesign their image and brand. So far, they have some very good products. It's a very ambitious project and one that is the most difficult to do. We'll have to see where they go from here. It's up to them. If they pull through with what they've done so far and keep the momentum going, it is possible. However, history has shown that they won't.

I think he means that he finds their cars ugly.

I love every angle of Cadillac's....except the rear. They have yet to nail a clean rear design IMO.

As for the ad campaign, I like it. Let consumers know just who Cadillac is going after with their new product portfolio. By all accounts the cars are more than capable of holding their own against the Germans it's just the brand perception is lacking. People can't justify spending Audi, BMW, or Mercedes dollars for a Cadillac, not yet anyway.

I loved their ad they showed during the Oscars. Nails their directive and aspirations perfectly while revealing the upcoming CT6, which looked sexy as hell. Of course they didn't show the rear of the car...

EDIT: Commercial I'm referring to,

The car you see at the end is the upcoming CT6, Cadillac claims this isn't their flagship car but it's meant to compete with the A8, 7 Series and S-Class. Confirmed motors will be the twin turbo V6 found in the CTS V-Sport and a brand new twin turbo V8 engine.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by tiltmode43

‏@CadillacEurope
Hey, @BMW #M, coming back for sure later this year. En route to Neckarsulm now. #SIAG #VSeries #DareGreatly

Wow, I hope their engineering abilities are better than their photoshop skills...

[Red Bread]

Haha, it might really list to the left, you never know.

Good point earlier about the weak rear end designs. I hadn't really put my finger on what was lacking, but it is the back design, they're all a little underdone. I do prefer the ATS to the CTS though.

[TheBingoBalls]

Billboard wars, part 2 anyone?

[yousefnjr]

They stopped by BMW HQ to get more of those stupid fender boomerangs from the 4 series

[tiltmode43]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Wow, I hope their engineering abilities are better than their photoshop skills...

LOL good catch!

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Billboard wars, part 2 anyone?

I'd love to see the other companies fire back but given the facts they may be timid, the new V line looks like it may cause quite the stir, similar to what happened when the CTS-V wagon came out.

[Lucky13]

They are No 6 in the US in premium cars so that shows how much Americans care about Cadillac. Their car sales actually decreased last year in the hottest market in 7 years. Take away the Escalade and they wouldn't do anything. I'm sure moving their HQ to New York will change everything.

Feb 2015 sales for Cadillac down over 12% with the ATS down 16% and CTS down 44%, I bet the Germans are really scared (not).

[Vigilante375]

Will it outperform the M3/M4? Fairly certain it will. But for the price of the next gen CTS-V.....I'd wait for someone else to pay that price and pick it up for a cheaper priced used.

Caddy is in full retard mode with their pricing. The ATS/CTS V series are going to perform but are priced way to freaking high.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Caddy is in full retard mode with their pricing.

+1. For further proof, please see ELR.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The CTS-V Sport is already a stellar car that handily beat all of the competition.
http://wot.motortrend.com/1311_cadil...0_f_sport.html

I know Cadillac is trying to completely redesign their image and brand. So far, they have some very good products. It's a very ambitious project and one that is the most difficult to do. We'll have to see where they go from here. It's up to them. If they pull through with what they've done so far and keep the momentum going, it is possible. However, history has shown that they won't.

Yeah the looks inside/outside, build quality and the dealership experience. Not saying the CTS-V Sport isn't a great car.. it drives at or near the top of the class, I actually almost bought one. But my local Caddy dealership sells a 90K Escalade and 12k Chevy Spark off the same showroom floor, and the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

Picture paying 100k for you CTS-V and you get an Cruze as your loaner..

Caddy isn't a profitable beyond the SUVs

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Yeah the looks inside/outside, build quality and the dealership experience. Not saying the CTS-V Sport isn't a great car.. it drives at or near the top of the class, I actually almost bought one. But my local Caddy dealership sells a 90K Escalade and 12k Chevy Spark off the same showroom floor, and the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

Picture paying 100k for you CTS-V and you get an Cruze as your loaner..

Caddy isn't a profitable beyond the SUVs

I've had plenty of time in both recent Caddys and recent BMWs. No way on Earth BMW has better build quality. And the Caddys simply out handle BMW. Its used to be you bought BMW for how they out-handled every other manufacturer, but as soon as an American comes and beats them at their own game it's "Well the CUE sucks!". LOL

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The CTS-V Sport is already a stellar car that handily beat all of the competition.
http://wot.motortrend.com/1311_cadil...0_f_sport.html

I know Cadillac is trying to completely redesign their image and brand. So far, they have some very good products. It's a very ambitious project and one that is the most difficult to do. We'll have to see where they go from here. It's up to them. If they pull through with what they've done so far and keep the momentum going, it is possible. However, history has shown that they won't.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've had plenty of time in both recent Caddys and recent BMWs. No way on Earth BMW has better build quality. And the Caddys simply out handle BMW. Its used to be you bought BMW for how they out-handled every other manufacturer, but as soon as an American comes and beats them at their own game it's "Well the CUE sucks!". LOL

We all have different opinions and I respect yours. However, that isn't my point. I agree the ATS/CTS drive better than the current gen BMWs, they should they are last ones to the party and have plenty of time to benchmark the class benchmarks ( The f10 was out in 2011/2010 F30 was out in 2011/2012, the ATS came out 2013/2014 and the CTS 2014).

The Cadillacs in a "totality" of Design, Execution,Value, Features are not at competitive with the Z Germans. There is two tiers of luxury, Audi, BMW, Benz, Porsche, Land Rover aka: Z-Germans and then there is everyone else.

Cadillac is going to have the same issues moving its current CTS at 50k-70k.. as it will at 75k-100k with 600 plus Hp. The question is what happens when they launch the CT6 and how that is prices vs the class its put in. Same concept if Lincoln came out with a Mark 7 based upon the GT350 and charged 95K and said it competes with the 911, R8, AMG GT

When its all said an done competition breeds better cars for all parties.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Yeah the looks inside/outside, build quality and the dealership experience. Not saying the CTS-V Sport isn't a great car.. it drives at or near the top of the class, I actually almost bought one. But my local Caddy dealership sells a 90K Escalade and 12k Chevy Spark off the same showroom floor, and the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

Picture paying 100k for you CTS-V and you get an Cruze as your loaner..

Caddy isn't a profitable beyond the SUVs

The same can be said for BMW. You can find a $30k 2 series along with a $100k M series. But that is what you get when you have a manufacturer that has an array of products for everyday people and not one group of people.

I believe the CTS did well in the last gen too against the Germans, they've been at the party but no one seems to care that they perform better.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Yeah the looks inside/outside, build quality and the dealership experience. Not saying the CTS-V Sport isn't a great car.. it drives at or near the top of the class, I actually almost bought one. But my local Caddy dealership sells a 90K Escalade and 12k Chevy Spark off the same showroom floor, and the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

Picture paying 100k for you CTS-V and you get an Cruze as your loaner..

Caddy isn't a profitable beyond the SUVs

Idk at my caddy dealer. They only sell caddys, and only loan ats and cts.

[1chanc3]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Caddy isn't a profitable beyond the SUVs

Not even sure that can be said. Maybe it's the area where I live but I haven't seen a new Caddy SUV or escalade in a looong time.
I probably see more M cars than new Cadillacs.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

We all have different opinions and I respect yours. However, that isn't my point. I agree the ATS/CTS drive better than the current gen BMWs, they should they are last ones to the party and have plenty of time to benchmark the class benchmarks ( The f10 was out in 2011/2010 F30 was out in 2011/2012, the ATS came out 2013/2014 and the CTS 2014).

The Cadillacs in a "totality" of Design, Execution,Value, Features are not at competitive with the Z Germans. There is two tiers of luxury, Audi, BMW, Benz, Porsche, Land Rover aka: Z-Germans and then there is everyone else.

Cadillac is going to have the same issues moving its current CTS at 50k-70k.. as it will at 75k-100k with 600 plus Hp. The question is what happens when they launch the CT6 and how that is prices vs the class its put in. Same concept if Lincoln came out with a Mark 7 based upon the GT350 and charged 95K and said it competes with the 911, R8, AMG GT

When its all said an done competition breeds better cars for all parties.

While I was disappointed to see the new Cadillac CEO decide to up-scale the prices to stay at levels near the German manufacturers, and decide to move Cadillac's headquarters to New York, where it think the cars will lose their focus on providing a better driving experience, and lose engineering synergy with corporate GM. I think Cadillac needed one more generation of cars priced at 85% of their German counterparts while offering better driving dynamics to gain market share though convincing buyers Cadillac offers better value. One more generation of offering excellent driving cars with a better reliability record and I think Cadillac could have succeeded.

But your comments show exactly what Cadillac is fighting, unsubstantiated bias toward their products and badge snobbery. So you thought the CTS was a good car and almost bought one, but there was a Chevy Spark in the showroom? That comment has nothing to do about how well the CTS is made, nor how well (and better) it drives than a BMW, but only has to do with badge snobbery. If that is your concern for purchasing any car, then Cadillac has missed its mark with you. You really don't care how a car drives, but rather what badge is on the hood. And that's really the issue, BMWs have gotten so shitty because most people want a shit-driving rolling computer that reads their e-mail, and shifts for them while they drive, but with a perceived premium badge on the hood. Cadillac's impetus to attack the Germans (really just BMW) at their game of offering driving dynamics is about 15 years too late.

The BMW 3 and 5 series have become the Cadillacs of yore, but because of Roundel whores only care about the badge on the hood, they pay whatever price for a car that drives no better than a Buick (probably wore now - LOL). And these buyers would know a good-driving car if it fell on their face. And the whole German luxury thing is really BMW and Audi riding the coat tails of Mercedes Benz. Mercedes has always been the luxury manufacturer of Germany, not BMW nor Audi. 15 years ago Audi upped it's game with restyling a front-drive Volkswagen and putting in a real nice interior. BMW has been chasing Lexus ever since the early 90's and has shit all over itself in the process. Reliability (but for rare instances) has not been an attribute of BMW nor Audi, and is still not today. If you are an old turd like me you know these things. In the 1970s and up to the mid-'80s Audi used to build complete pieces of shit. And BMWs offered very little in terms of luxury (but they drove head and shoulders above everything else) until Lexus showed up - with its Toyota reliability reputation right from the get-go.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

While I was disappointed to see the new Cadillac CEO decide to up-scale the prices to stay at levels near the German manufacturers, and decide to move Cadillac's headquarters to New York, where it think the cars will lose their focus on providing a better driving experience, and lose engineering synergy with corporate GM. I think Cadillac needed one more generation of cars priced at 85% of their German counterparts while offering better driving dynamics to gain market share though convincing buyers Cadillac offers better value. One more generation of offering excellent driving cars with a better reliability record and I think Cadillac could have succeeded.

But your comments show exactly what Cadillac is fighting, unsubstantiated bias toward their products and badge snobbery. So you thought the CTS was a good car and almost bought one, but there was a Chevy Spark in the showroom? That comment has nothing to do about how well the CTS is made, nor how well (and better) it drives than a BMW, but only has to do with badge snobbery. If that is your concern for purchasing any car, then Cadillac has missed its mark with you. You really don't care how a car drives, but rather what badge is on the hood. And that's really the issue, BMWs have gotten so shitty because most people want a shit-driving rolling computer that reads their e-mail, and shifts for them while they drive, but with a perceived premium badge on the hood. Cadillac's impetus to attack the Germans (really just BMW) at their game of offering driving dynamics is about 15 years too late.

The BMW 3 and 5 series have become the Cadillacs of yore, but because of Roundel whores only care about the badge on the hood, they pay whatever price for a car that drives no better than a Buick (probably wore now - LOL). And these buyers would know a good-driving car if it fell on their face. And the whole German luxury thing is really BMW and Audi riding the coat tails of Mercedes Benz. Mercedes has always been the luxury manufacturer of Germany, not BMW nor Audi. 15 years ago Audi upped it's game with restyling a front-drive Volkswagen and putting in a real nice interior. BMW has been chasing Lexus ever since the early 90's and has shit all over itself in the process. Reliability (but for rare instances) has not been an attribute of BMW nor Audi, and is still not today. If you are an old turd like me you know these things. In the 1970s and up to the mid-'80s Audi used to build complete pieces of shit. And BMWs offered very little in terms of luxury (but they drove head and shoulders above everything else) until Lexus showed up - with its Toyota reliability reputation right from the get-go.

Truth be told, I'd probably feel the same way. When you're paying BMW money you expect more than just "badge snobbery". If I'm buying a car from the same showroom as where a Chevy Spark is sitting, I'd question the type of customer service I'd get post purchase too.

I think Cadillac is doing the right things, if you want people to view your brand in the same light as BMW, Audi, etc., you need to provide a similar experience, not just with how the car drives, but in how you purchase one too.

You'd expect to pay top dollar for a steak at Delmonico's in NYC wouldn't you? If McDonalds sold that exact same steak, would you be willing to walk into one and pay the same price knowing it was exactly the same steak?