[BMW F22]

I received an offer from a company that I interviewed with some months ago. It was a verbal offer and I wanted to wait until I have the official email before I start negotiating. I just received the letter and was wondering how to go about it.

It was the hiring manager that made the verbal offer and I got the email from HR. Do I negotiate with the hiring manager or do I go through HR?

Offer is lower than what I'm making now. It is a much further commute than my current job so I was thinking of making the jump only if I get at least a 15-20% increase. Thoughts?

PS- current job is contract but they are converting me to FT. Just waiting for the offer letter for it to be official. I was hoping that this other place would be higher so I could use it to match.

[PoorLurker]

Has nothing to do with your question - but what are the prospects of each job? Ability to move up? Perks? Benefits? Frequency of raises (after probation? stagnant?) There are a lot of things that salary alone does not tell.

I'd factor these in to the equation and then come up with a number to talk to the ... hiring manager? Seems like HR may due the processing...

Then again, I can be completely wrong.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

Has nothing to do with your question - but what are the prospects of each job? Ability to move up? Perks? Benefits? Frequency of raises (after probation? stagnant?) There are a lot of things that salary alone does not tell.

I'd factor these in to the equation and then come up with a number to talk to the ... hiring manager? Seems like HR may due the processing...

Then again, I can be completely wrong.

To be honest, I like my current job and hope that the offer they make when converting me is a good one. I would be a happy camper then. I would say the current one has better mobility.

The new company is more stable. I would have a better title (which I suppose may be negotiated/asked for at the current one) but unsure about upward mobility. I've worked in the same industry before at a different company and upward mobility was poor. I would only consider it if the offer was a good one which at this point, isn't. Not sure how much room they have as the first offer is always a lowball one.

[PoorLurker]

Then again, I heard in the white collar world, it's not uncommon for people "having" to leave companies every X amount of years in order to get what they are valued in terms of salary.

I have often seen companies continue to pay new hires more and more as time progresses outweighing the raises that have been given to the loyal employees.

Maybe I am just an old crabby cynic though

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

I received an offer from a company that I interviewed with some months ago. It was a verbal offer and I wanted to wait until I have the official email before I start negotiating. I just received the letter and was wondering how to go about it.

It was the hiring manager that made the verbal offer and I got the email from HR. Do I negotiate with the hiring manager or do I go through HR?

Offer is lower than what I'm making now. It is a much further commute than my current job so I was thinking of making the jump only if I get at least a 15-20% increase. Thoughts?

PS- current job is contract but they are converting me to FT. Just waiting for the offer letter for it to be official. I was hoping that this other place would be higher so I could use it to match.

Typically, contract pays higher than FT since on a fully-loaded SG&A basis, it's cheaper or equal.

That said, why take a lower paying job with a longer commute? There has to be something compelling. Please refer to Poorlurkers questions.

In addition:

1. How long have you been working?
2. How long have you been in the same industry/role?
3. What's your education background?
4. How long have you been out of school?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

I received an offer from a company that I interviewed with some months ago. It was a verbal offer and I wanted to wait until I have the official email before I start negotiating. I just received the letter and was wondering how to go about it.

It was the hiring manager that made the verbal offer and I got the email from HR. Do I negotiate with the hiring manager or do I go through HR?

Offer is lower than what I'm making now. It is a much further commute than my current job so I was thinking of making the jump only if I get at least a 15-20% increase. Thoughts?

PS- current job is contract but they are converting me to FT. Just waiting for the offer letter for it to be official. I was hoping that this other place would be higher so I could use it to match.

Uhh... you won't get more money that u are making now... i would drop and look further asap.

[W Cole]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Uhh... you won't get more money that u are making now... i would drop and look further asap.

What?? Do you know OP personally? Is their current pay above market...?

Every company I have ever worked at you would want to negotiate with the hiring manager. They are the ones (or their boss) that have the ability to set salaries. HR just handles the administrative side but doesn't have the ability to set compensation. They would just be an intermediary.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by W Cole

What?? Do you know OP personally? Is their current pay above market...?

So perhaps you are not aware of how the corporate world functions but...

assuming this offer is 5% less than he makes now and he is asking for 15-20% more... u think they will increase his offer 25%? Please point me to your marijuana dealer.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Typically, contract pays higher than FT since on a fully-loaded SG&A basis, it's cheaper or equal.

That said, why take a lower paying job with a longer commute? There has to be something compelling. Please refer to Poorlurkers questions.

In addition:

1. How long have you been working?
2. How long have you been in the same industry/role?
3. What's your education background?
4. How long have you been out of school?

As mentioned, I would only take the new job if I can negotiate a 15-20% increase over the current one (along with better title). Seems as though the first offer they made is about 10% lower than the current so I'm not sure how much room is left for negotiation.

New offer is from a company in an industry that I worked in for 3 years. Left that and went to the current one which I like better. Been a few years out of school since I finished MBA.

[W Cole]

Originally Posted by ASAP

So perhaps you are not aware of how the corporate world functions but...

assuming this offer is 5% less than he makes now and he is asking for 15-20% more... u think they will increase his offer 25%? Please point me to your marijuana dealer.

I am well aware. Aware that it's impossible to make blanket statements such as this without all the facts. You are making many assumptions there ^

[JohnnyCanuck]

Absolutely negotiate with HR. The hiring manager has said he or she wants you, it's now up to the recruiter in HR to deliver you. Assuming the job is in a broadband pay scale, they probably offered you something less than midpoint. Most companies don't like to hire at midpoint or above, but will to get the person they want.

Reply with an honest explanation of what you make right now, both in raw salary and in total comp (vacation is 2% per week and you should be able to do a quick comparison on the benefits). Advise that it is a longer commute but you like the opportunity but you need it to make financial sense.

Once you have their best offer, take it to your current employer and see if they'll match to keep you.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by W Cole

What?? Do you know OP personally? Is their current pay above market...?

Every company I have ever worked at you would want to negotiate with the hiring manager. They are the ones (or their boss) that have the ability to set salaries. HR just handles the administrative side but doesn't have the ability to set compensation. They would just be an intermediary.

I believe this is correct. although I spoke to the hiring manager and she made the verbal offer, I wanted to have something concrete first before taking any further steps.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by W Cole

I am well aware. Aware that it's impossible to make blanket statements such as this without all the facts. You are making many assumptions there ^

companies these days are insanely stingy... if they increase your offer 10%, then you are lucky... and thats already pushing it... the exception being that a large part of their revenue depends on you as you are the go to guy or very particularly niche in your skillset... but perhaps i am just talking out of my ass

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by ASAP

So perhaps you are not aware of how the corporate world functions but...

assuming this offer is 5% less than he makes now and he is asking for 15-20% more... u think they will increase his offer 25%? Please point me to your marijuana dealer.

Your thinking is exactly what I was curious about. I would basically have to get 25% increase from their current offer to make it worthwhile. It's not impossible as I got similar increase from leaving my last job.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by ASAP

So perhaps you are not aware of how the corporate world functions but...

assuming this offer is 5% less than he makes now and he is asking for 15-20% more... u think they will increase his offer 25%? Please point me to your marijuana dealer.

Actually, you might not be aware. For example, the salary band for my position is from a low of $92K to a high of $143K with a $115K midpoint. Plenty of negotiating room. Extremely common for management and professional positions everywhere.

In most cases, job postings are advertised only to midpoint (if salary is listed at all) not giving one a clear picture of what the range actually is.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

Actually, you might not be aware. For example, the salary band for my position is from a low of $92K to a high of $143K with a $115K midpoint. Plenty of negotiating room. Extremely common for management and professional positions everywhere.

In most cases, job postings are advertised only to midpoint (if salary is listed at all) not giving one a clear picture of what the range actually is.

Thats completely accurate... but tell me, have you ever seen an offer letter revised 25-30%? I have not.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

Absolutely negotiate with HR. The hiring manager has said he or she wants you, it's now up to the recruiter in HR to deliver you. Assuming the job is in a broadband pay scale, they probably offered you something less than midpoint. Most companies don't like to hire at midpoint or above, but will to get the person they want.

Reply with an honest explanation of what you make right now, both in raw salary and in total comp (vacation is 2% per week and you should be able to do a quick comparison on the benefits). Advise that it is a longer commute but you like the opportunity but you need it to make financial sense.

Once you have their best offer, take it to your current employer and see if they'll match to keep you.

Thank you for the sound advice! Funny thing is I gave them a copy of my weekly paycheck as they requested for it as part of the interview. So they know how much I make now yet made an offer that is lower than my current salary. I gave it to HR as they were collecting the requested documents so I don't know if the hiring manager is aware that the offer made is lower.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Typically, contract pays higher than FT since on a fully-loaded SG&A basis, it's cheaper or equal.

That said, why take a lower paying job with a longer commute? There has to be something compelling. Please refer to Poorlurkers questions.

In addition:

1. How long have you been working?
2. How long have you been in the same industry/role?
3. What's your education background?
4. How long have you been out of school?

Originally Posted by ASAP

Uhh... you won't get more money that u are making now... i would drop and look further asap.

Hey buddy...see the above.

If you are not getting a 15-25% raise why even have a conversation? Additionally, if the official offer does not match the hiring manager's verbal offer, there is a major disconnect somewhere and this is not a good first experience with someone who will be the primary interface with your employer. If they are low-balling you, again, not a good first experience.

I will add this to the list of questions from Mywifes335 :

What is the median income for the position?
How much is the total compensation package worth?
Is a move into an unknown situation worth the risk when the known variables aren't that favorable relative to your current position?

Finally, ask to spend a day with one of your potential peers to gain further insights into the company.

I hope this helps! If I can help additionally, you know how to reach me.

Cheers, my friend - mk

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

As mentioned, I would only take the new job if I can negotiate a 15-20% increase over the current one (along with better title). Seems as though the first offer they made is about 10% lower than the current so I'm not sure how much room is left for negotiation.

New offer is from a company in an industry that I worked in for 3 years. Left that and went to the current one which I like better. Been a few years out of school since I finished MBA.

I would...leverage the offer for the job you don't like for the job you want. Going to a job you don't like for 15-20% more money is not really worth it. If that were even an option.

There's always room. It just depends how much they want you and how much your market value is. But if they undercut your current salary by 10%....that's not a good sign.

Didn't they ask your current salary?

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by ASAP

companies these days are insanely stingy... if they increase your offer 10%, then you are lucky... and thats already pushing it... the exception being that a large part of their revenue depends on you as you are the go to guy or very particularly niche in your skillset... but perhaps i am just talking out of my ass

It depends on the industry, position, value of the position to the bottom line, and the value, relative to peers, of the potential new-hire

Originally Posted by ASAP

So perhaps you are not aware of how the corporate world functions but...

assuming this offer is 5% less than he makes now and he is asking for 15-20% more... u think they will increase his offer 25%? Please point me to your marijuana dealer.

It can happen in a high-value position.

Originally Posted by W Cole

I am well aware. Aware that it's impossible to make blanket statements such as this without all the facts. You are making many assumptions there ^

This.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

Absolutely negotiate with HR. The hiring manager has said he or she wants you, it's now up to the recruiter in HR to deliver you. Assuming the job is in a broadband pay scale, they probably offered you something less than midpoint. Most companies don't like to hire at midpoint or above, but will to get the person they want.

Reply with an honest explanation of what you make right now, both in raw salary and in total comp (vacation is 2% per week and you should be able to do a quick comparison on the benefits). Advise that it is a longer commute but you like the opportunity but you need it to make financial sense.

Once you have their best offer, take it to your current employer and see if they'll match to keep you.

Negotiate with the hiring manager and her/his boss. The HR director/generalist/whatever doesn't have P & L responsibility. They are there to advise and hand the shooter more ammo, nothing else. They have organizational skin in the game but not P and L. It makes a huge difference. I have never had an HR colleague overrule my decisions. They advise, they do not decide.

I would advise against taking an offer from another company to my current company. If they match the offer, why wouldn't they pay you that much in the first place? They obviously had the wherewithal to do so but chose not to exercise the capacity. That is not the kind of relationship that I would want with my boss and the organization I work for.

Cheers-mk

P.S. Go in with a well thought out, well rehearsed plan. As a new hire, this is typically the largest base pay increase one will receive so make the most of it.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

I would...leverage the offer for the job you don't like for the job you want. Going to a job you don't like for 15-20% more money is not really worth it. If that were even an option.

There's always room. It just depends how much they want you and how much your market value is. But if they undercut your current salary by 10%....that's not a good sign.

Didn't they ask your current salary?

On my mobile, no multi quote so I'll answer both your and MKSixer's questions in this post.

Your statement is exactly what I want to do. I don't really want to go to the new company as I have been in that industry before and wasn't 100% fond of it. The new company seems more relaxed though even though it's same industry. Have a former colleague who I worked with at the previous company that left for the new one. He likes it better there.

Another friend left to go to new company as well (similar position). While he got an increase over his former job, I am confident that whatever they offered him was lower than my current salary. This leads me to think that there may not be much room. It's a government job so I'm not sure how much room there is left as they usually pay in the middle of the range.

I am considering the new one for only higher salary And only if it's a sizable increase. The commute distance is substantially longer and that means more mileage and wear and tear to my car (not to mention about $2,700 more a year in extra gasoline cost). I would like to see how much their final offer is and see if I can use that as leverage at my current one. Don't know if that is wise because I don't want to create hard feelings at the current job.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

On my mobile, no multi quote so I'll answer both your and MKSixer's questions in this post.

Your statement is exactly what I want to do. I don't really want to go to the new company as I have been in that industry before and wasn't 100% fond of it. The new company seems more relaxed though even though it's same industry. Have a former colleague who I worked with at the previous company that left for the new one. He likes it better there.

Another friend left to go to new company as well (similar position). While he got an increase over his former job, I am confident that whatever they offered him was lower than my current salary. This leads me to think that there may not be much room. It's a government job so I'm not sure how much room there is left as they usually pay in the middle of the range.

I am considering the new one for only higher salary And only if it's a sizable increase. I would like to see how much their final offer is and see if I can use that as leverage at my current one. Don't know if that is wise because I don't want to create hard feelings at the current job.

Generally, I'm not sure anyone whom is truly ambitious would ever leave a private sector job for a government job...unless it's in a function like FBI or CIA agent or political, etc.

I'd ride this offer out to see where it goes but I'd really analyze your long-term trajectory. There is something to be said for building career equity at a current job that might help your career more than going elsewhere...especially if the TARGET is only 15-20%.

One concern is you framed the "new" company environment as "relaxed". This is not consistent with making more money.

If anything, keep looking and see what you find.

One important question: WHY are you fixated on a 15-20% salary increase? I mean, it sounds like your contract gig going FT is pretty imminent, no?

There are a few things here that don't quite jive.

I'd only leave a job if I couldn't stand it, if I were about to get fired, or if I were grossly underpaid and there's no future in sight - and I were unable and had been unable to rectify these issues.

Honestly, I don't see a 10-15% salary increase as meaningful unless there's a specific reason. If, say, your current per annum is $100k, a $10k annual increase is only about $580/month more in take home. It's not enough to dramatically change your lifestyle.