[hoyasaxa]

Also, it appeared that during the red flag Christian Horner was trying to tell him that Vettel had no room. It was hard to hear, but it did sound like Horner was almost scolding Max. Anyone catch that?

Max's moves on Kimmy were out of bounds too. Kid is obnoxious. Just like his crash at Monaco. Little kid is dangerous and keeps crossing the line. He's a brat.

/rant

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

Also, it appeared that during the red flag Christian Horner was trying to tell him that Vettel had no room. It was hard to hear, but it did sound like Horner was almost scolding Max. Anyone catch that?

Max's moves on Kimmy were out of bounds too. Kid is obnoxious. Just like his crash at Monaco. Little kid is dangerous and keeps crossing the line. He's a brat.

/rant

WHAT... ? WTF !?!?

This means war brother !!!

[hoyasaxa]

He was singlehandedly responsible for three near-wrecks at the start, too. It's irresponsible. And he was completely off the track

[WoohooSoCal]

U bro?

[hoyasaxa]

:

[rcracin]

I like Vettel but if you ask me, Vettel was the first cause of the turn 1 crash. Max had room on the inside that Kimi left him but then Kimi either didnt want to let him in or didnt have room to move because Vettel left none. He's racing to win, not respect someone else's past accomplishments.

[Zing]

The turn 1 incident on the opening lap was Vettel's fault. After several slow-mo replays from different angles and on-boards, it was obvious that Vettel turned into Raikkonen. Verstappen's blocking of Raikkonen later in the race was a definite no-no.

That said, the kid is 18. He doesn't yet know how to harness his talent. We were saying the same thing about Vettel 7 years ago. Give him time to mature. He's going to be world champ within 3 years.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

He was singlehandedly responsible for three near-wrecks at the start, too. It's irresponsible. And he was completely off the track

Completely off the track ?
That's BS !
Cause nr 1 of the incident was Vettel !

Max was "NOT" completely off the track , "he was forced" by the Ferrari to take the inside of the turn => "on the curb"
Max had a really bad launch ,because he's trans. had a bad respons on his launch...
This pic shows where Max was in the turn , and for me he was on the curb and not completely off the track like you said !

The pic shows where Max actually was ...and why he was forced on the inside !
BTW...Who hits first ?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Zing

The turn 1 incident on the opening lap was Vettel's fault. After several slow-mo replays from different angles and on-boards, it was obvious that Vettel turned into Raikkonen. Verstappen's blocking of Raikkonen later in the race was a definite no-no.

That said, the kid is 18. He doesn't yet know how to harness his talent. We were saying the same thing about Vettel 7 years ago. Give him time to mature. He's going to be world champ within 3 years.

Exactly ! It was "Vettel" like I said above .
I saw the start with the first turn at least 15 X on repait and froze the image in the turn !
And from that moment Max race was already over and out , caused by the reds !

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

Also, it appeared that during the red flag Christian Horner was trying to tell him that Vettel had no room. It was hard to hear, but it did sound like Horner was almost scolding Max. Anyone catch that?

Max's moves on Kimmy were out of bounds too. Kid is obnoxious. Just like his crash at Monaco. Little kid is dangerous and keeps crossing the line. He's a brat.

/rant

I have to agree. If he continues driving that way, he is going to lose respect from other drivers which is not good for his reputation in the future.
Very talented kid but he starts to show some arrogance very early in his career.
As for the accident at the start, he could have easily avoided that incident by backing off a little bit, as even Ray Charles could see there was no room for him.
Kimi was sandwiched between him and Vettel and had no way to avoid the contact.
Vettel on the other hand, could have avoided it by simply giving more room to Kimi, his teammate. Instead, he turned into him and that was the main reason for that accident IMO.
I understand that avoiding contact sometimes means giving up track position, but its better than possibly be out of the race, especially in the very beginning of it.

[J.M]

Exactly. I for one am starting to seriously dislike him! And I do live in the Netherlands and understand the consequences of saying this :P

[MKSixer]

VET instigated the accident but there was poor close racing to share the blame. VES was not in position to force the car through the inside. Refer to the 2012 Crash in almost the same place cause by GRO.

Spa is a race that is difficult to win in the first corner unless you are on pole and there is an accident exactly like this one. Max had the proper strategy because he knew that being directly behind ROS meant a tow up the Kemmel Straight which may allow a pass under braking at the end. I'm not certain the Red Bull has the HP for this but he would have been close enough for a strong move in sector 2 where the RB was advantaged. This entire strategy depended on his position at the going into Eau Rouge. This is why Max was super aggressive, I believe.

On to VET. VET caused this. Period. End of story. Had Kimi been in his position we wouldn't even be discussing this. He turned down onto Kimi and caused the chain reaction. Had Kimi been in this position, he would have taken the escape road and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Poor execution by VET. Poor decision by VES. Kimi the meat in the sandwich.
JMHO.

[SSJTrunks523]

Vettel turned in assuming that Kimi would turn in, which he would have had Ves not decided to dive bomb and run off the track in a prayer move. You could tell his desperation by flying off the track for the entirety of the first lap.

I really like the kid, and he is incredibly talented, but at this rate he is going to kill someone. Probably Kimi if history is any judge.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by hoyasaxa

Also, it appeared that during the red flag Christian Horner was trying to tell him that Vettel had no room. It was hard to hear, but it did sound like Horner was almost scolding Max. Anyone catch that?

Max's moves on Kimmy were out of bounds too. Kid is obnoxious. Just like his crash at Monaco. Little kid is dangerous and keeps crossing the line. He's a brat.

/rant

It was Vettel in turn 1 !

[SSJTrunks523]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

It was Vettel in turn 1 !

"Vettel turned in assuming that Kimi would turn in, which he would have had Ves not decided to dive bomb and run off the track in a prayer move. You could tell his desperation by flying off the track for the entirety of the first lap.

I really like the kid, and he is incredibly talented, but at this rate he is going to kill someone. Probably Kimi if history is any judge."

He had no reason to be there in the first place (VES). Vettel was assuming that the other racers weren't planning on crashing through the competition. Bad assumption, so boo on VET as well as VES, but there is no way anyone can defend VES's race on Sunday. He was all over the place.

Fast, talented kid who will someday be a WC, but he needs to take his time and not just throw the car around hoping things go his way.

[Alfisti]

Black and white for me. Max should not have gone for that move as it puts him at risk, however, 90% of corner incidents are caused by the wide man turning in on the apex when other car(s) are there. Vettel was absurd, he took the same line as qualifying rather than knowing there were gonna be cars on the apex! he hit Kimi first ffs.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by SSJTrunks523

"Vettel turned in assuming that Kimi would turn in, which he would have had Ves not decided to dive bomb and run off the track in a prayer move. You could tell his desperation by flying off the track for the entirety of the first lap.

I really like the kid, and he is incredibly talented, but at this rate he is going to kill someone. Probably Kimi if history is any judge."

He had no reason to be there in the first place (VES). Vettel was assuming that the other racers weren't planning on crashing through the competition. Bad assumption, so boo on VET as well as VES, but there is no way anyone can defend VES's race on Sunday. He was all over the place.

Fast, talented kid who will someday be a WC, but he needs to take his time and not just throw the car around hoping things go his way.

Yep , turn 1 in Francorchamps is always a problem in most races with no matter who...because this first turn is "too important" for the rest of the race .
So everyone is defending places at the same spot...The result we saw

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by SSJTrunks523

"Vettel turned in assuming that Kimi would turn in, which he would have had Ves not decided to dive bomb

No, no, no and no. See this WAY too often. if you CHOOSE to run the wide line you have no right to be anywhere near the apex in traffic, period.

[SSJTrunks523]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

No, no, no and no. See this WAY too often. if you CHOOSE to run the wide line you have no right to be anywhere near the apex in traffic, period.

I agree, which is why I said that it was Vettel's bad as well. I was just explaining why he did it. He expected Kimi to turn, and probably didn't see the Flying Dutchman on Kimi's right

[Groundpilot]

All I can say poor Kimi. In the post race interview he was trying to be polite and politically correct , but he had all the right to blast Max and Vet for stupid driving
On the other hand, Max didn't want to admit his guilt at all, instead he sounded like a child who was trying to lie in order to avoid punishment

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by SSJTrunks523

I agree, which is why I said that it was Vettel's bad as well. I was just explaining why he did it. He expected Kimi to turn, and probably didn't see the Flying Dutchman on Kimi's right

Max is actually "not" a Dutchman , Max is 100% Belgian !
Only his F1 driver license is Dutch , the rest is Belgian...And I can prove it

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

No, no, no and no. See this WAY too often. if you CHOOSE to run the wide line you have no right to be anywhere near the apex in traffic, period.

This. That's why I think that Vettel was the main reason for that accident.
In the replay video we could clearly see what Max was facing and if he couldnt see that he didn't have any room at the apex, then its a sign of immaturity and a poor judgment.
If Vet gave Kimi some room, then I think he could have still avoided the contact with MadMAX and we wouldn't be talking about it
Kimi is one of the cleanest drivers I have seen in F1