[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The world has caught up and the industry has progressed. You either adapt or die.

That's rubbish, Norbert. This is all about sales volume. It has nothing to do with sticking with core principles and engineering a superior car. It has everything to do with selling more cars so that you don't lose your #1 sales status. Congratulations, you are now GM.

[Billup]

Too bad it's not RWD or I'd actually consider buying one.


Sucks to hear.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The replacement 1er is not launching until 2018 so I fail to understand how they are reporting it is coming in 2016 when it will not be on sale until 2018 in Europe?

Unless things change I do not see the North American market receiving the Sporthatch. maybe additional variant .

The look of the car is more like this , evolutionary but using the new technical design language of future BMWs. Most importantly the 1er will be more competitive in packaging the interior and will share large car technology including the split driver passenger screen.

Actually the market is occupy by vw and ford with the golf and focus. If BMW could bring the 1 serie hatchback with a reasonable price tag I'm sure there would be a market specially that you could bring it with x-drive. The M135i would be an excellent golf r fighter. You could probably put the 28i engine in and obtain an excellent gti fighter. Finally a 120i close to golf's msrp would be awesome.

[fecurtis]

Could you even put an N55 engine in a 1 Series? I just assumed it'd have the same powertrain options as a Mini Cooper.

[ASAP]

This is basically giving up all of your core roots and principles for market size. In the US, BMW has always marketed themselves as an entry level luxury car and the ultimate driving machine... this is neither and truly is 100% akin to GM and Toyota.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Could you even put an N55 engine in a 1 Series? I just assumed it'd have the same powertrain options as a Mini Cooper.

Chances are no if it's FWD. 300 HP / 300 TQ is way too much for a FWD car and the engine mounting would have to be different, not sure if it would fit. This will be a 3 and 4 banger specialty.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by ASAP

This basically giving up all of your core roots and principles for market size. In the US, BMW has always marketed themselves as an entry level luxury car and the ultimate driving machine... this is neither and truly is 100% akin to GM and Toyota.

They build an SUV (many of them...with another in the pipeline), ultimate driving machine is just marketing mumbo jumbo. They're a company who's purpose is to make money. With Mercedes and Audi selling their FWD based entry car like hot cakes (CLA and the A3 respectively), it makes sense that BMW would want a piece of that pie. Since it's FWD and shares underpinnings with Mini, it can attract even more young people to the brand due to it's lower price point.

I don't see an issue with it so long it's a well built vehicle. It can be FWD and still be fun to drive, ever drive a Mini Cooper or a Honda Civic Si before? Aim it towards fresh out of college working professionals and BMW has a shot at having BMW customers for the rest of their lives (Audi has specifically targeted the A3 to hipsters, quite creatively).

Outside of Acura, there really isn't much out there for young people who want a nice luxury car aside from the A3 and CLA. Why not offer a BMW too? Audi, Mercedes and BMW can build a $30k luxury car that's a hell of a lot nicer than something Acura can offer. Which in this case is the awful ILX. For now all $30k gets you is a stripped out 320i which may be fine for some but for others not so much, young people (like myself) enjoy gadgets too.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The world has caught up and the industry has progressed. You either adapt or die.

Funny, in the last 20 years... I can't think of a single instance where they could die. They have been doing fine all these years and if they stuck to core principles, they may actually gain market size as they would be the only ones doing something different. This is a bean counters dream. How do I know? I am a bean counter.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

They build an SUV (many of them...with another in the pipeline), ultimate driving machine is just marketing mumbo jumbo. They're a company who's purpose is to make money. With Mercedes and Audi selling their FWD based entry car like hot cakes (CLA and the A3 respectively), it makes sense that BMW would want a piece of that pie. Since it's FWD and shares underpinnings with Mini, it can attract even more young people to the brand due to it's lower price point.

I don't see an issue with it so long it's a well built vehicle. It can be FWD and still be fun to drive, ever drive a Mini Cooper or a Honda Civic Si before?

Many many times... it's not the same thing nor will ever be. Each company has its place and niche... this is simply trying to gain market size at all expense. I understand why, I am just not sure I agree with why.

Also, what's wrong with a 228 / 328? You can lease those cars for next to free... both good cars sticking to core principles. Nice chassis with RWD, priced well. Not a fan of the steering but I doubt many care about that tbh.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Many many times... it's not the same thing nor will ever be. Each company has its place and niche... this is simply trying to gain market size at all expense. I understand why, I am just not sure I agree with why.

Just changing times I'm afraid. I mean, 10 years ago if someone told you that Porsche would build a sedan and an SUV (soon to be two) what would you say?

I mean hell, Bentley is even building an SUV now. Money talks I'm afraid. If people who have the means want them, niche automakers will start building them.

Don't get me wrong, whenever I see a Panamera or a Cayenne I scream why, but they aren't going anywhere, for better or for worse.

The way I see it, the profits just gives them more R&D money to build even better sports cars.

EDIT: as with leasing, it's not for everyone. Some drive a lot of miles, others just like paying a car off ASAP and just enjoying it until the wheels fall off.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Just changing times I'm afraid. I mean, 10 years ago if someone told you that Porsche would build a sedan and an SUV (soon to be two) what would you say?

I mean hell, Bentley is even building an SUV now. Money talks I'm afraid. If people who have the means want them, niche automakers will start building them.

Don't get me wrong, whenever I see a Panamera or a Cayenne I scream why, but they aren't going anywhere, for better or for worse.

The way I see it, the profits just gives them more R&D money to build even better sports cars.

EDIT: as with leasing, it's not for everyone. Some drive a lot of miles, others just like paying a car off ASAP and just enjoying it until the wheels fall off.

I have no issues with SUVs. Those have totally different uses and are truly for a different crowd. You are not abandoning your core car's architecture nor bastardizing the brand as something cheap and completely built for economical reasons, BMW is. Porsche is a niche company that honestly only made 1 or 2 cars, that is eventually hard to survive on. BMW always had a very solid and well rounded lineup... this is GM'ing itself out.

If BMW wanted to be special, they could have offered something like the 5 door 1 series hatch with an N55 in the US. Nothing like this exists over here currently and I know lines that would be out the door to get one. All hatches are FWD and have no RWD counterpart.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

If BMW could bring the 1 serie hatchback with a reasonable price tag I'm sure there would be a market specially that you could bring it with x-drive. The M135i would be an excellent golf r fighter.

M135 with x-drive has been on sale in Europe for quite a while