[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Admittedly the last time I drove a car on-track with a conventional H shifter pattern was a Ferrari 355 Challenge years ago... But I drove a Z51-equipped C7 Corvette on the track a few weeks ago and the manual transmission felt slow and clumsy compared to the Porsche SMG and even my F30's ZF 8 speed.

I'm not sure I'll ever own a manual again.

[olinjohnston]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Admittedly the last time I drove a car on-track with a conventional H shifter pattern was a Ferrari 355 Challenge years ago... But I drove a Z51-equipped C7 Corvette on the track a few weeks ago and the manual transmission felt slow and clumsy compared to the Porsche SMG and even my F30's ZF 8 speed.

I'm not sure I'll ever own a manual again.

I took a manual E92 328i on trade Thursday because the owner specifically wanted to replace it with an automatic, but nothing was wrong with the car otherwise...I actually enjoyed driving it across to pre-owned for the appraisal.

As you see, BMW is not the reason behind the decline of the stick shift.

[islandbimmer]

not sure if it was touched on here , a reason I only bought MT BMW's is the failure rate on the autos , even Consumer Reports used to not recommend any BMW equipped with an auto . Hope they have sorted out the past issues . I have close to a million miles on Mt BMW's never touched a clutch or had any tranny issues, never even serviced them. Sadly the fade now of multi tasking, can't have a coffee while driving , is killing the MT . No longer is there an advantage in mpg's department either . Give BMW credit they are one of the last holdouts on the MT front just like the coffee cup holder LOL

R.I.P. MT you will be sadly missed. except by my shirts as my daily coffee will be made easier

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by islandbimmer

not sure if it was touched on here , a reason I only bought MT BMW's is the failure rate on the autos , even Consumer Reports used to not recommend any BMW equipped with an auto . Hope they have sorted out the past issues . I have close to a million miles on Mt BMW's never touched a clutch or had any tranny issues, never even serviced them. Sadly the fade now of multi tasking, can't have a coffee while driving , is killing the MT . No longer is there an advantage in mpg's department either . Give BMW credit they are one of the last holdouts on the MT front just like the coffee cup holder LOL

R.I.P. MT you will be sadly missed. except by my shirts as my daily coffee will be made easier

Blame ZF, not BMW for most of those automatic transmission failures. In the quest for better fuel econonmy, ZF insists on stuffing more clutch packs into the same sized casing that used to house four and five forward gears. More gears inside of the same sized casing equals smaller clutch packs, and you can figure out the rest. ZF is not interested in a building a durable transmission. They're interested in building a money making transmission. I say blame ZF for 'most' of those failures because BMW was (is?) using GM autos in a few of its cars.

We also live in a world where people are getting increasingly impatient. Why take the time to learn to drive an MT when you can just put it in drive, click on some flappy paddles, and have a computer do the work for you? Driving an MT is a lot more fun and rewarding, but it takes time to learn and master that skill. I agree with you that it's sad, but it's just natural progression I suppose.

[olinjohnston]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

I say blame ZF for 'most' of those failures because BMW was (is?) using GM autos in a few of its cars.

The GM ones are really no better. If other transmissions last longer it's because they require regular maintenance intervals. I bet most BMW transmission failures (barring programming issues) could be prevented with fluid/filter changes every 30k mi.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by olinjohnston

The GM ones are really no better. If other transmissions last longer it's because they require regular maintenance intervals. I bet most BMW transmission failures (barring programming issues) could be prevented with fluid/filter changes every 30k mi.

I'm not too familiar with GMs 6 speeds that BMW used in the 1er (and maybe other cars?) But I do know that the GM 5 speeds that were used in the E46s were a lot more robust than the comparable ZF units.

Agree with the regular service intervals. I love how ZF manufactured the 6HP19/26 and called for regular fluid changes between 48-72,000km, but as soon as BMW bolted it into one of their cars it magically never needed servicing.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by olinjohnston

The GM ones are really no better. If other transmissions last longer it's because they require regular maintenance intervals. I bet most BMW transmission failures (barring programming issues) could be prevented with fluid/filter changes every 30k mi.

You guys do know... that BMW says their ZF automatics(8AT's) do not require any maintenance. Problem is.... ZF who builds and designed the 8AT's says you should change the fluid every ~45K miles! So who do you trust knows more? My money is on ZF.

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Admittedly the last time I drove a car on-track with a conventional H shifter pattern was a Ferrari 355 Challenge years ago... But I drove a Z51-equipped C7 Corvette on the track a few weeks ago and the manual transmission felt slow and clumsy compared to the Porsche SMG and even my F30's ZF 8 speed.

I'm not sure I'll ever own a manual again.

I think you meant porsche's version of DCT (called PDDK) not SMG, right? I believe they are different systems.

It's all about what the driver is looking for. If driver involvement and engagement are your priorities then manual is the way to go. If slightly faster shifts and slightly better fuel economy appeal to you then DCT may be more applicable.

The manual shifter is slower, and perhaps less refined, but that doesn't really factor in when people opt for that transmission. I think there are enough 3rd pedal purists on the market that the manual transmission will live on, though in decreasingly smaller numbers, so long as there is a need for a hydraulic transmission.

As soon as we convert to 100% electric motors, this whole conversation becomes a moot topic.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

I think you meant porsche's version of DCT (called PDDK) not SMG, right? I believe they are different systems.

It's all about what the driver is looking for. If driver involvement and engagement are your priorities then manual is the way to go. If slightly faster shifts and slightly better fuel economy appeal to you then DCT may be more applicable.

The manual shifter is slower, and perhaps less refined, but that doesn't really factor in when people opt for that transmission. I think there are enough 3rd pedal purists on the market that the manual transmission will live on, though in decreasingly smaller numbers, so long as there is a need for a hydraulic transmission.

As soon as we convert to 100% electric motors, this whole conversation becomes a moot topic.

You got it. Brain fart I guess!

[Helltime]

Between the 2 bmw dealers in Minneapolis I have been to recently and the one here in Des Moines Iowa, I have not seen a single 3 or 4 series on the lot with manual trans. Every 320i and 328i has been automatic. They have flat out told me unless someone commits to buying and is willing to wait for it, they will not order one. That does not help the manual cause one bit....

[Brewer Bill]

I recently took a survey from BMW that started as a general satisfaction questionnaire, but quickly zeroed in on the fact that I had bought a manual. The rest of the survey was asking about the importance of 6MT in my purchase decision, likelihood of buying another manual, importance in future decision, etc. I made sure my feelings were well known on the topic including adding a comment in the open ended section that my future convertible purchase will not be a Z4 due to the lack of a manual option.