[Mr Tonka]

So what is real justice?

If you go by the posts in this thread, justice will involve a tall branch and a short rope, or a firing squad.

Some evident facts for digestion:

1. Officer handled the entire stop incorrectly from the start. Communication is key and the victim was obviously startled to step out of his vehicle and find a cop car there. Seems to me that due to his surprise, he was eager to comply with the officer's request. I feel the officer should have controlled the situation better from the start by not requesting documents until he was in a proper position to control the situation.

2. At a range of 10' any officer can get a better hit percentage of 25%. He was obviously high on adrenaline and fear for what he thought was a life and death situation for himself.

3. Officer didn't fire until victim turned around with something in his hand near his waist. Turns out it was a wallet. (And don't hear me wrong, I don't believe the victim did anything wrong. By my estimation, all of the victim's actions were justified.)

4. Deadly force is deadly force. After an officer or someone has determined that deadly force is justified, you fire until the perceived threat is no longer a threat. So 1 well placed shot or 10 shots, no difference. There have been reaction studies of people shooting guns and they have found that after being told to stop firing, on average people still fired 3 to 4 more shots. Those studies concluded that was a result of the time it takes your brain to control your finger. I can only imagine that under stress, that reaction time is even slower.

5. If you look at this video objectively, i think you'll conclude that the officer was not acting out of malice or hate, but rather genuine fear.

6. This incident is entirely caused by poor police work.

It's unfortunate that this officer's poor judgement could have cost someone their life. What's also unfortunate, as someone else posted, the view from the officer looks very similar to what it looks like just before cops get shot. There are far more incidents where people fire on police without warning than the opposite. It's clear that the officer made an enormous mistake that was 100% due to his negligence (not controlling the situation prior to asking for ID docs) and deserves punishment. For any sane person, that punishment doesn't include any rope, firing squad, or shawshank.

IF, you can see that the officer didn't act out of malice. And IF, you can see that this incident was caused by his poor communication and police work. Knowing that the victim will be well compensated for his injuries. (that could be life changing).....What do you think a proper punishment should be for this officer's mistake?

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by NEFARIOUS

I mean, when the hell is the federal government going to get off their ass and do something about it?

Never. They are the biggest promoter of the 'police state' mentality.

When voting, choose wisely.

[grimlock]

Mr. Tonka,

He should probably do something that doesn't involve pointing a firearm at someone anytime he feels jumpy.

[m3ray]

Originally Posted by grimlock

He should probably do something that doesn't involve pointing a firearm at someone anytime he feels jumpy.

Seriously. Isn't every police officer equipped with Taser guns now adays? That is a safe non-lethal option inside of just unloading on the guy.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by grimlock

Mr. Tonka,

He should probably do something that doesn't involve pointing a firearm at someone anytime he feels jumpy.

If you thought someone was getting a weapon out of their vehicle with the intent of using it against you, where would you point your firearm?

Originally Posted by m3ray

Seriously. Isn't every police officer equipped with Taser guns now adays? That is a safe non-lethal option inside of just unloading on the guy.

You'll never see an officer use less than lethal options against an armed suspect. Tasers and pepper spray are options to use when subduing unarmed people.

The point i'm making is that the officer seems to have genuinely thought the victim was reaching in his vehicle for a weapon. No one capable of LE pistol qualification lands what amounts to a single, errant, lucky shot out of 4 from a range of 10' unless they are consumed / overcome with fear and adrenaline.

Once you realize that evident fact, the incident boils down to procedural mistakes that lead to officer being in a situation where he felt he had to defend himself with deadly force. Those are HUGE mistakes and you can be sure that departments across the county will be using this video as a training tool showing what NOT to do.

I'm on the fence as to what type of punishment is warranted for the officer. So i'm asking you guys; what is justice in this situation? The victim while experiencing being shot, recover, therapy, possibly a life long physical disability, will ultimately be well compensated for this. Judging by how a woman who was beat up by a cop settled for $1.5mil, this victim will likely get 3 or 4x that figure. So what is fair and just punishment for the cop?

[NEFARIOUS]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

Never. They are the biggest promoter of the 'police state' mentality.

When voting, choose wisely.

There IS that, but at the same time, there IS a huge difference between upholding police involvement and A. Writing a damned ticket and letting the person go, or B. Dying or being shot at because you did 10 over the speed limit with no other cars on the road or some other equally victimless "crime" and taking away resources from other. I mean, even just 5 short years ago there were FAR less brutality cases and now we might as well appoint Obama as our communist leader.

I mean, these asshole cops should save their energy for when they finally catch a child molester or something, not for getting a license from the car, which I'd be the one that'll probably get shot at too (knock on wood) since I only carry a state ID in my pocket and keep my license in my glove compartment since I had an incident where the TSA mishandled my license on a flight.

Either way, just so I don't have "Got pulled over and shot by a chickenshit police officer" on my death certificate; that's pansy as hell... I should get armed just so I can at least die trying to fight back, or a lot better than walking around in a bulletproof vest.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

If you thought someone was getting a weapon out of their vehicle with the intent of using it against you, where would you point your firearm?

You'll never see an officer use less than lethal options against an armed suspect. Tasers and pepper spray are options to use when subduing unarmed people.

The point i'm making is that the officer seems to have genuinely thought the victim was reaching in his vehicle for a weapon. No one capable of LE pistol qualification lands what amounts to a single, errant, lucky shot out of 4 from a range of 10' unless they are consumed / overcome with fear and adrenaline.

Once you realize that evident fact, the incident boils down to procedural mistakes that lead to officer being in a situation where he felt he had to defend himself with deadly force. Those are HUGE mistakes and you can be sure that departments across the county will be using this video as a training tool showing what NOT to do.

I'm on the fence as to what type of punishment is warranted for the officer. So i'm asking you guys; what is justice in this situation? The victim while experiencing being shot, recover, therapy, possibly a life long physical disability, will ultimately be well compensated for this. Judging by how a woman who was beat up by a cop settled for $1.5mil, this victim will likely get 3 or 4x that figure. So what is fair and just punishment for the cop?

My point was he should NOT be a cop because he exhibits poor judgement to put himself in such a position where he feels compelled to open fire /andor is incompable of proper judgement when to fire.

If he is going to startle the suspect, he should expect a startle response, no? Failed that judgement.
Don't startle, guy moves at normal speed.
Startle, EXPECT he will move rapidly to comply with whatever YOU are telling him to do - the brain has no time to think in that situation.
So... unfit to be a cop.

I don't know what is fair punishment, but I think it is hard legally to punish him for anything. Everything is on the PD for hiring him and compensate the victim.

Originally Posted by NEFARIOUS

I should get armed just so I can at least die trying to fight back, or a lot better than walking around in a bulletproof vest.

not going to help when they can't aim and shot u everywhere BUT the torso

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by grimlock

My point was he should NOT be a cop because he exhibits poor judgement to put himself in such a position where he feels compelled to open fire /andor is incompable of proper judgement when to fire.

If he is going to startle the suspect, he should expect a startle response, no? Failed that judgement.
Don't startle, guy moves at normal speed.
Startle, EXPECT he will move rapidly to comply with whatever YOU are telling him to do - the brain has no time to think in that situation.
So... unfit to be a cop.

I don't know what is fair punishment, but I think it is hard legally to punish him for anything. Everything is on the PD for hiring him and compensate the victim.

Absolutly agree. That is exactly what happened and the cop didn't read that body language from the start. He could have simply said, i noticed you pulled in the parking lot not wearing your seat belt. Are you aware that it's illegal to operate a motor vehicle in this state without your seatbelt fastened? That would have diffused the victim's surprise and anxiety. The victim's response would have given the officer insight into his state of mind. Etc...

100% the officer's fault.

But like you said, it's difficult to charge him criminally, when technically he committed no crime. He didn't act with criminal intent but best case scenario would be some type of involuntary criminal charge since the situation came about due to his negligence.

He certainly has no business being a cop ever again and department he worked for should be investigated for it's training procedures. Outside of that i have a hard time coming up with what is justified punishment as well.

And due to lack of response, i'm assuming everyone else is also finding it difficult.

[NEFARIOUS]

Originally Posted by grimlock

not going to help when they can't aim and shot u everywhere BUT the torso

The average 'Murican cop can't shoot for shit, while I do lots of sharpshooting and even almost got a job doing firearms instruction at a shooting range (proof if you don't believe me), but I got a higher paying job and didn't go for it... But they'd have one hell of a fight unless it's point-blank range. Sure, there's my noggin, but minus that, the only thing left in a situation like that are my non-lethal extremities and my Asian cock (which I'll put on my will that the fucker can have all of my inheritance if he manages to even graze it with a bullet) .

[DoctoRx]

This is exactly why whenever I leave the house in the e92 I'm sure to keep a white lab coat displayed hanging in my back set and keep my license, registration, and my state license to practice handy. When I get pulled over I've usually already got them all out and I keep my hands on the steering will or on the outside of the car with both hands on the door. Even with that I've had a firearm pulled on me numerous times. Shitty cops will be shitty cops - but at least those steps have managed to keep itchy trigger fingers from being pulled.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by NEFARIOUS

The average 'Murican cop can't shoot for shit, while I do lots of sharpshooting and even almost got a job doing firearms instruction at a shooting range (proof if you don't believe me), but I got a higher paying job and didn't go for it... But they'd have one hell of a fight unless it's point-blank range. Sure, there's my noggin, but minus that, the only thing left in a situation like that are my non-lethal extremities and my Asian cock (which I'll put on my will that the fucker can have all of my inheritance if he manages to even graze it with a bullet) .

i believe you dude.. on the unmentionables part.. not the normally referred to unmentionables - the other one

that said my arm would probably shake more than a 9yr girl with an Uzi..

[m3ray]

Following up on the days events involving out of control cops.

Why are they giving him preferential treatment? Oh yeah he's a cop.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trial-ver...h-carolina-cop

[Lups]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

I still can NOT comprehend the actions of this officer after watching this video several times??? Total disregard for human life and ZERO probable cause to use deadly force. Again... Prepare to be SICK!
Fortunately the victim survives. But 4 foking shots??? Really???
And notice the "just calm down bro, I have a ambulance on the way." Wooooooow....
By no means do I have ANY issues or beef with cops. I have several as close friends. I am certain they would be equally disgusted!

Thoughts...

I come from a country where you CAN get shot IF you go to the forests in the hunting season and dress up as a moose. We let old people hunt too.

Since I moved here, 2 people have tried to rob me, one with a knife.

I have met a lot of people who made sure I knew I was in the wrong place with the wrong car.

I have been told to stay away from neighborhoods because its not safe because some ethnicity.

One person got my blog to in whole and and told me he/ she would send it to my hubby if I didn't pay him/her 10 k.

I've been pulled over a lot bc cops see me driving an M4 and go "Fuck that's a girl, that's not right."

A black man getting shot because he tries to get the info asked for doesn't surprise me. This is a sad place to be.

where the fuck are the humans here?

[TrevorM3]

jesus christ, imagine if this monkey actually knew how to shoot..

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by m3ray

Following up on the days events involving out of control cops.

Why are they giving him preferential treatment? Oh yeah he's a cop.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trial-ver...h-carolina-cop

Yeah that ain't even right in the least...

[Deep_Blue]

Now THIS is a heinous example of a law enforcement officer. He should be thrown in jail and left to rot. No judgement, itchy trigger finger. Thank god the victim survived. Not the best idea to jump out of the car when being pulled over, but it doesn't justify getting shot.

Edit: from the article....

“Before I could even get out of my car he jumped out, stared at me, and as I jumped out of my car and identified myself, as I approached him, he jumped head-first back into his car … he jumped out of the car. I saw something black in his hands.”

you mean... the rest of his hand?

[stylinexpat]

Karma catches up with these officers one day when something happens to them. He could be ticketing someone on the side of the freeway when an accident happens and he gets struck or while on his motor bike when accident happens. There are many times we hear about when an officer died and how tragic it was. There is probably a 50% chance that it was a tragic accident and 50% chance that Karma kicked in. Police Officers are not immune to Karma.

I have always thought that if you kill someone that one day karma may kick in and you may be killed as well. If you harm someone them karma may kick in to where you are harmed as well. If you fine someone and cause them financial hardships then Karma may kick in and you may have financial hardships as well. What goes around comes around. Why they make others pay it will only be a matter of time to where they have to pay as well.