[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Crashnbrn5

Done? lol

They sell about 1100 cars a year, times an avg selling price of $370,000 is 407 MILLION in revenue. The margins are horrible though, I haven't looked at them lately, but its prob around 3%..

They might not make money on the cars, but the revenue is absolutely there.

Seems like a lot of people missed the sarcasm in this thread. All the negative posts regarding the future of BMW AG were made to poke fun of all those previous posts regarding sales (January through March) saying BMW was done, losing it, etc.

There's one thing that a lot of people do here, they don't typically put everything in context. This is just one example. Sure USA may be down in Q1 but in the world, BMW AG is doing just fine. BMW North America may be BMW's most significant region, but there is a market outside of it and collectively it's equally as important in terms of business strategy and growth.

As for the post regarding BMW i being a waste. How can it be a waste if it provides future benefits? You have to spend money to make money.

Originally Posted by Matski

You're somewhat under estimating...

I'd also be curious to see where you get your margin estimate from?

Yeah. 3% is way off. Rolls Royce Motors profit margin is around 10%.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Matski

Don't be silly.

The new Phantom is on the way, the SUV is on its way, the Dawn has record pre-orders, and it sounds like demand is outstripping supply. And this is coming off the back off the best two years in the company's history. 2017 is likely to be a record year for the company... and you reckon they're done?

Sorry I didn't make my sarcasm more clear. RR is not done. Their sales are down 24% which means 60 cars. Next month they will be up 40%. Great product. True luxury. Worthy of walnut burl even.

[Crashnbrn5]

Yea, so even better, thanks. You may be including sales outside of strictly Rolls Royce Motors. I didn't have time to google stuff, just going off what I know (thought I know) But the margins are bad, luxury, expensive wise Porsche is the highest at 18%, Merc, BMW, Audi, Fall in 10%, low teens area.

Originally Posted by Matski

You're somewhat under estimating...

I've calculated these figures based on global sales volume (as per annual reports) and "list" price for each "basic" model in USD...

2015: $1,209,016,000
2014: $1,310,604,000
2013: $1,209,932,000
2012: $1,182,666,000
2011: $1,173,220,000
2010: $ 889,654,000

I'd also be curious to see where you get your margin estimate from?

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Seems like a lot of people missed the sarcasm in this thread. All the negative posts regarding the future of BMW AG were made to poke fun of all those previous posts regarding sales (January through March) saying BMW was done, losing it, etc.

There's one thing that a lot of people do here, they don't typically put everything in context. This is just one example. Sure USA may be down in Q1 but in the world, BMW AG is doing just fine. BMW North America may be BMW's most significant region, but there is a market outside of it and collectively it's equally as important in terms of business strategy and growth.

As for the post regarding BMW i being a waste. How can it be a waste if it provides future benefits? You have to spend money to make money.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Thanks.

BMW isn't done. Any of those posters broadcasting that they are done only wish they had a company as amazing, successful, and innovative as BMW.

BMW may not build the car the naysayers want anymore. If so, go get a P car. Heck, go buy the new Camaro.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by Crashnbrn5

Yea, so even better, thanks. You may be including sales outside of strictly Rolls Royce Motors. I didn't have time to google stuff, just going off what I know (thought I know) But the margins are bad, luxury, expensive wise Porsche is the highest at 18%, Merc, BMW, Audi, Fall in 10%, low teens area.

The sales volumes are based on the report figures by BMW which are broken down by model, so they are accurate - whether the price estimates are close varies from vehicle to vehicle!

The grey area here is who you consider to be making the money.

Rolls Royce Motor Cars Ltd has an operating profit of around 4% in 2014. But in 2014 they had a revenue equivalent to $636,000,000. Assuming my earlier estimates were correct, thats about half(ish) of the money taken from end purchasers. So the other half is going to the dealer network... of course this varies, but lets just assume BMW Holdings B.V. owned the dealership network (not saying they do, it's just a supposition) then that increases their margin more than 10-times (and tax free )

[JoosyJoos]

Despite the positive numbers BMW is losing ground to its rivals that have been behind for years. You can read more here:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-first-quarter

Audi behind by approx 15k units. Mercedes behind by about 3k units. Interesting times. Especially for the US market, let alone the global one.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Again since its inception in 2012. China remains BMWs number one market, more evident by the news to be revealed at the Beijing Auto Show in under two weeks.

Production 2 Series sedan?

(That's rhetorical - I know you won't confirm/deny. )

Edit: I see Matski beat me to the punch with that prediction.

[doccyber]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Rolls Royce is so done. Why even bother?

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

What this does not say is that Mercedes has bettered BMW's worldwide figures with 483,487 cars from January-March VS 478,743 cars for BMW. https://next.ft.com/content/a1009ff8...8-3c15a1aa2e62. In my humble opinion this has a lot to do with product design and of course the number of new releases and how active the brand is. BMW should get rid of their GT series, which are a disaster IMO, reduce the number of "niches" and change their mindset into setting a benchmark with innovative models (like what Tesla does for example), instead of only thinking of bettering products from Audi and MB...

[Matski]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

What this does not say is that Mercedes has bettered BMW's worldwide figures with 483,487 cars from January-March VS 478,743 cars for BMW. https://next.ft.com/content/a1009ff8...8-3c15a1aa2e62. In my humble opinion this has a lot to do with product design and of course the number of new releases and how active the brand is. BMW should get rid of their GT series, which are a disaster IMO, reduce the number of "niches" and change their mindset into setting a benchmark with innovative models (like what Tesla does for example), instead of only thinking of bettering products from Audi and MB...

Reducing the number of models on offer will not increase sales against Mercedes, who already offer volume models that BMW do not, who are also introducing models to counter BMW's niches', and have further volume products to introduce (a freakin' pick-up truck for example).

I'm not saying BMW's line-up is perfect, or that they don't need to up their game in certain areas because they do, but they won't beat Mercedes in sales (or keep investors and shareholders happy) by cancelling their niche products.

[David70]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

All this from a company that has lost its way and cannot even build an M4 that's better than a Camaro.

Maybe they just got lucky, or possibly they know exactly what they are doing (except for the horrible Rolls Royce, that brand is done for sure).

I don't believe selling volume worldwide has anything to do with building something the enthusiast wants (then they are still down 8% in the America's). Toyota is the #1 selling brand in the world yet sells nothing I am really interested (maybe 1 Lexus) so obviously the volume doesn't follow my interests and if volume is the goal I recommend going after the Camry.

One of the main problems with following volume is trying to keep your products interesting to the enthusiasts. Like going to the biggest chain restaurants and finding something really interesting to eat.

I think these posts are interesting but reality is if BMW is 3rd or 10th on volume matters a lot to them but nothing to me as the buyer.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by David70

I don't believe selling volume worldwide has anything to do with building something the enthusiast wants (then they are still down 8% in the America's). Toyota is the #1 selling brand in the world yet sells nothing I am really interested (maybe 1 Lexus) so obviously the volume doesn't follow my interests and if volume is the goal I recommend going after the Camry.

One of the main problems with following volume is trying to keep your products interesting to the enthusiasts. Like going to the biggest chain restaurants and finding something really interesting to eat.

I think these posts are interesting but reality is if BMW is 3rd or 10th on volume matters a lot to them but nothing to me as the buyer.

You make good points. The previous generation BMW enthusiasts are a tough crowd. I didn't buy BMW for 6 years when I was pissed about Bangle's whatver it is that they were. I kept my treasured E39 for way longer than normal because none of the competition had anything I wanted. The F30, properly equipped got me back into BMW. I'm fine with how it drives, feels, and handles. I'm getting proper tires installed today and I expect to be even happier. Some harder core enthusiasts have higher standards than me. If the 340i, M235, M3, or M4 are not good enough, then maybe its time for you to shop another brand. You could try a M4 GTS. I hear its pretty nice too.

In the meantime, BMW is out selling cars which is the business they are in. You say BMW sales are down in the US. In next months report when they are up, I'm sure those expecting doom will have a good explanation for it.

Listen, I wish BMW would make a line of pure drivers cars without all the options and packages, less weight, and drives like the BMWs of yore for day to day driving that puts that smile on your face. They don't anymore.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Listen, I wish BMW would make a line of pure drivers cars without all the options and packages, less weight, and drives like the BMWs of yore for day to day driving that puts that smile on your face. They don't anymore.

That, of course is just your opinion. Having owned 18 BMWs since 1977, I am pretty familiar with BMWs of yore. With all that experience, I can equivocally say that my M4 is the best BMW that I have ever owned. It says to me that BMW can still build pure drivers cars. Just my opinion.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

That, of course is just your opinion. Having owned 18 BMWs since 1977, I am pretty familiar with BMWs of yore. With all that experience, I can equivocally say that my M4 is the best BMW that I have ever owned. It says to me that BMW can still build pure drivers cars. Just my opinion.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I agree with you. I think the M4 and the M3 are amazing and if I wanted/needed that much performance I would get one of them in a minute.

My comment meant to be about BMW having a base offering that is built for the enthusiast. The '88 528i 5 speed MT I bought new had no power to speak of, but it was a total blast to drive. Wouldn't it be nice if BMW made an enthusiasts line where the base car in that line was built for driving fun with no need to upgrade packages or options. That's what I mean when I talk about the days of yore. I'm not talking about high horsepower as a requirement. The base 320 or 328 but set up for driving; suspension, brakes, steering feel. Whatever it takes to paint the grin on the drivers face. They could offer optional engine choices on top of that for those who think high horsepower and torque are important. Maybe that is what this new track package offering is supposed to do.

Bottom line: I think BMW does an amazing job in a very competitive global market. They build something for everybody. The idea that all of their cars are going to please the fraction of 1% that frequent this forum is unrealistic in the global car market. BMW is not a niche player anymore.

[Kjenndal]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Again since its inception in 2012. China remains BMWs number one market, more evident by the news to be revealed at the Beijing Auto Show in under two weeks.

BMW Concept 9 Series?