[FD3S]

3D Printing has evolved and seems like a good solution to make some prototypes or actual car parts.

I am interested to make a prototype or the actual part of an ram air of my car with 3D printing technology. Does anybody knows what kind of material should I use and what are the prices for printing a large scale object like this? Also where I could print a large scale object like a ram air?

Thank you.

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by FD3S

3D Printing has evolved and seems like a good solution to make some prototypes or actual car parts.

I am interested to make a prototype or the actual part of an ram air of my car with 3D printing technology. Does anybody knows what kind of material should I use and what are the prices for printing a large scale object like this? Also where I could print a large scale object like a ram air?

Thank you.

Jay Leno has been doing this for years, check out his youtube channel, he show some of the parts he has made, there is a recent one where they printed metal parts. They also had a car that was completely printed, if memory serves.

[Aatish]

Having done this before, it depends heavily on the application for the part. PLA and ABS are the 2 most well know materials (plastics).

PLAs generally are for display and design purposes. Usually use them for seeing ideas in person, to refine them, or for decorations. PLAs have several special types too, like metalfill and carbon fiber reinforced...but, those are still PLA based. Not really that strong or rigid.

Most of the plastic in your car is ABS. ABS is very strong and durable, however requires different printing parameters than PLA. That said, if you're thinking about using a service to print, then that's not really an issue.

For those ram airscoops, I'd probably use ABS for the functional devices. There are quite a few 3D printing services out there, and for the most part are the same. ABS is fairly cheap, and ram scoops aren't that intricate of a part, so cost wouldn't be much.

Hard to give a rough estimate on cost, as it's heavily dependent on the actual design...but for comparison, a nicely printed iPhone case costs around $30 to print and ship from a service, using ABS as material. Larger volume of the model, as well as difficulty of the design, will increase price.

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by KenB925

Jay Leno has been doing this for years, check out his youtube channel, he show some of the parts he has made, there is a recent one where they printed metal parts. They also had a car that was completely printed, if memory serves.

KENB925 from the videos I watched of Jay Leno I found a company that does what I want. Thank you.

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by Aatish

Having done this before, it depends heavily on the application for the part. PLA and ABS are the 2 most well know materials (plastics).

PLAs generally are for display and design purposes. Usually use them for seeing ideas in person, to refine them, or for decorations. PLAs have several special types too, like metalfill and carbon fiber reinforced...but, those are still PLA based. Not really that strong or rigid.

Most of the plastic in your car is ABS. ABS is very strong and durable, however requires different printing parameters than PLA. That said, if you're thinking about using a service to print, then that's not really an issue.

For those ram airscoops, I'd probably use ABS for the functional devices. There are quite a few 3D printing services out there, and for the most part are the same. ABS is fairly cheap, and ram scoops aren't that intricate of a part, so cost wouldn't be much.

Hard to give a rough estimate on cost, as it's heavily dependent on the actual design...but for comparison, a nicely printed iPhone case costs around $30 to print and ship from a service, using ABS as material. Larger volume of the model, as well as difficulty of the design, will increase price.

Aatish thank you for the explanation it is very helpful. What troubles me the most is which material will not change it's form on high temperatures that can be produced from the engine and then when it is cooled to don't change its formation. I was thinking the Futura Carbonfil but I am not sure about that. DO you have heard about this filament?

[Aatish]

Originally Posted by FD3S

Aatish thank you for the explanation it is very helpful. What troubles me the most is which material will not change it's form on high temperatures that can be produced from the engine and then when it is cooled to don't change its formation. I was thinking the Futura Carbonfil but I am not sure about that. DO you have heard about this filament?

No problem.

Carbonfil is like metalfil and woodfil. Basically, it's carbon fiber fragments mixed into PLA, around 20%-40% carbon fiber depending on the brand.

Still mostly PLA, so behaves pretty much like PLA except more rigid. The way it handles heat will most likely be different than pure PLA, but not by much. Most of these "exotic" filaments have thermal specifications. Carbonfil is awesome for creating chassis or struts...but, I wouldn't use that for a part near a heat source.

Most, if not all of the plastics in the engine bay (engine cover, connectors, switches, etc.) are injection molded ABS. ABS can handle heat a lot better than PLA, and is also a lot more robust. For a part that would be inside the engine, but not necessarily in contact with a heat source, ABS would be the way to go.

That said, if you want to avoid plastics all together, there is a company called "Markforged" which prints in actual carbon fiber, as well as HSHT fiberglass, nylon, kevlar, and other materials.

Pricey, but you get a lot nicer parts.

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by FD3S

KENB925 from the videos I watched of Jay Leno I found a company that does what I want. Thank you.

great, post pics when you finish your project!

[muddtt]

I printed some parts for my intake on my home printer. They were smaller parts, but made from ABS. Handled a track day with no issues.

[FD3S]

Muddy thanks for posting. How long do you have those parts on your car? Have you seen any change of formation or something?

[GoHokiesGo]

Originally Posted by FD3S

Aatish thank you for the explanation it is very helpful. What troubles me the most is which material will not change it's form on high temperatures that can be produced from the engine and then when it is cooled to don't change its formation. I was thinking the Futura Carbonfil but I am not sure about that. DO you have heard about this filament?

You'll want to work with the company printing your parts to ask for a data sheet on the materials they offer. They should be able to help you pick your material based on the temperatures it's exposed to.

In plastics, it's typically referred to as the "glass transition" temperature when plastic loses its rigidity and starts to lose its structural capability; this is not flowing liquid plastic, but the point where the grain structure becomes flexible and the part can deform if too much pressure is applied. A quick google search shows it occurs around 60°C/140°F for PLA and much higher around 105°C/220°F for ABS plastic.

One alternate is that you can use a 3D printer to create plastic molds, and then cast a higher temp capable material in the molds; I've done this at work a number of times for aerospace parts that were difficult to machine in short turnaround times.

[FD3S]

Originally Posted by GoHokiesGo

You'll want to work with the company printing your parts to ask for a data sheet on the materials they offer. They should be able to help you pick your material based on the temperatures its exposed to.

In plastics, it's typically referred to as the "glass transition" temperature when plastic loses its rigidity and starts to lose its structural capability; this is not flowing liquid plastic, but the point where the grain structure becomes flexible and the part can deform if too much pressure is applied. A quick google search shows it occurs around 60°C/140°F for PLA and much higher around 105°C/220°F for ABS plastic.

One alternate is that you can use a 3D printer to create plastic molds, and then cast a higher temp capable material in the molds; I've done this at work a number of times for aerospace parts that were difficult to machine in short turnaround times.

Thank you for your answer. :thumbs:

When I get to the final design with my mechanic, I have thought also the second solution that you mention, to make a 3d design of our concept ram air, then create a cheap mold with 3d printing and give it to a carbon fiber shop to create the prototype. Maybe this is the best solution since it will match with my carbon airbox. Everything will depend on the cost of each of the two solution.

However I like the procedure even if I know that the cost will be significant higher than buying and modify an existing solution.

[muddtt]

Originally Posted by FD3S

Muddy thanks for posting. How long do you have those parts on your car? Have you seen any change of formation or something?

It's been in the car for about 6-7 months now. I just removed it yesterday because I plan on selling the car. The only deformation was from the hose clamps putting pressure on the cylindrical parts. No issues with heat though.