[bosstones]

Let's start with: How are you defining performance? "Make it go", handling, or yes?

[Beartato]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I know I'll be in the minority here, but I don't think chassis stiffening has any emperical evidence to support its supposed benefits.

But driver and tires would be the best.

Ever built a drag car?

[kevin65]

Originally Posted by bosstones

Let's start with: How are you defining performance? "Make it go", handling, or yes?

Defining car performance is pretty easy, make it so, it's a long process that require more powerful, or at least more efficient, combustion. More fuel alone going into the engine wouldn't work, because of the delicate rapport between the oxygen in the air and the fuel required for the combustion.
Modifying car's engine to accept more air and fuel is the solution.

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I know I'll be in the minority here, but I don't think chassis stiffening has any emperical evidence to support its supposed benefits.

But driver and tires would be the best.

My biggest cringe is when people say coilovers is the first mod to do when tracking.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I know I'll be in the minority here, but I don't think chassis stiffening has any emperical evidence to support its supposed benefits.

But driver and tires would be the best.

I'll go against you here, my friend. If you think about the car as a series of rectangles with the front suspension rectangle comprised of the upper and lower stress bars in the horizontal plane and the shocks and uprights comprising the sides, stiffening the upper and lower stress bars will create a more stable platform for the vertical bits and bobs. In the M6 I went from the plastic, YES PLASTIC, hollow tubes which comprised the upper stress bar to a billet aluminum offering from AC Schnitzer.

The same goes for the rear. I did the same thing in the rear which went from nothing to the Dinan CF piece.

Driving in town...no difference. Pushing the car on the road or at the track, no contest. The results were astounding. The car turns in much sharper, feels about a foot shorter, and is more stable.

Stiffening the chassis only makes a difference in a car that is driven near the edges of it's performance envelope. I can shoot you some pictures of the before and after if you'd like.

Cheers-mk

[Msizzle]

we still say "chip" ? I thought it was a tune these days

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by Msizzle

we still say "chip" ? I thought it was a tune these days

Correct. Now we just re-flash the ecu instead of physically replacing the ecu "chip"

[silvergray545]

Originally Posted by Harambe

My biggest cringe is when people say coilovers is the first mod to do when tracking.

It's not so much the coilovers that bother me but rather the brands people choose. Koni yellows will take you a long way versus the garbage people buy.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

I'll go against you here, my friend. If you think about the car as a series of rectangles with the front suspension rectangle comprised of the upper and lower stress bars in the horizontal plane and the shocks and uprights comprising the sides, stiffening the upper and lower stress bars will create a more stable platform for the vertical bits and bobs. In the M6 I went from the plastic, YES PLASTIC, hollow tubes which comprised the upper stress bar to a billet aluminum offering from AC Schnitzer.

The same goes for the rear. I did the same thing in the rear which went from nothing to the Dinan CF piece.

Driving in town...no difference. Pushing the car on the road or at the track, no contest. The results were astounding. The car turns in much sharper, feels about a foot shorter, and is more stable.

Stiffening the chassis only makes a difference in a car that is driven near the edges of it's performance envelope. I can shoot you some pictures of the before and after if you'd like.

Cheers-mk

Not saying the feel isn't better, but how does it translate to actual measurable performance improvements?

[silvergray545]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Not saying the feel isn't better, but how does it translate to actual measurable performance improvements?

If your chassis is flexing under cornering or braking, it's changing the suspension geometry. Which makes your suspension less effective. That also means the tires no longer have the same contact patch as intended. Less grip all around.

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by silvergray545

It's not so much the coilovers that bother me but rather the brands people choose. Koni yellows will take you a long way versus the garbage people buy.

They don't bother me at all. But when people recommend them as the first mod for tracking.. no. Tires, pads, and fluid will give you much bigger performance improvements (and safety too).

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by silvergray545

If your chassis is flexing under cornering or braking, it's changing the suspension geometry. Which makes your suspension less effective. That also means the tires no longer have the same contact patch as intended. Less grip all around.

That's the theory - but show me actual empirical evidence of this. I actually looked around for a while for some actual measurable benefit. Outside of more driver confidence, it really couldn't find any.

[silvergray545]

Originally Posted by Harambe

They don't bother me at all. But when people recommend them as the first mod for tracking.. no. Tires, pads, and fluid will give you much bigger performance improvements (and safety too).

I don't even consider those mods. If I bring anyone to the track with me, they have to have track pads and fluid at a minimum.

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

That's the theory - but show me actual empirical evidence of this. I actually looked around for a while for some actual measurable benefit. Outside of more driver confidence, it really couldn't find any.

It sounds like you want to see a test where the only variable is the chassis stiffness. I'm guessing that likely doesn't exist.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by silvergray545

I don't even consider those mods. If I bring anyone to the track with me, they have to have track pads and fluid at a minimum.

It sounds like you want to see a test where the only variable is the chassis stiffness. I'm guessing that likely doesn't exist.