[adrianBMW99]

Originally Posted by GeorgeA

Congrats! I'm a fan of A3/S3s but one question I have is, if you don't want to get a non-M BMW, why are you okay with a non-RS Audi? These two cars are in the same category (235i and S3).

Again, good pickup, the S3 does some things better than the M235i (sedan vs coupe).

To try something different and as was mentioned... the difference between an S and RS car is not nearly as large as an M car and a non M car. No RS car that I am aware of is as track focused as say an F80 M3.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I think as a whole we agree... just like 320i w sport suspension is identical to the 335i w sports suspension. The difference is that I believe the difference between an M3 and a 335i is faaaar greater than the difference between an S3 and and RS3. I dont particularly buy into the rs hype as the only difference is the 5 cyl engine, a reworked diff and slightly different suspension (all of which no one can actually specify). The rs3 even rides on identically sized tires unless you get the staggered front tires (and some say the difference in traction / handling could be caused by that). In bmw's case, the non m 3 series ride on a completely different chassis code and are designed around shitty runflat tires... the M3 has virtually everything across the board different. I'd be willing to put money on it, that if you tuned an s3, put identical tires on it and were able to retune the diff to more rear bias, it wouldnt be far off a stock Rs3... again, remember these cars are not designed to be track focused like the M cars... and that is the massive difference in philosophy and the way they drive.

This is the reason why I got an A4 for my every day car. The premium for the S4 wasn't worth it for me as a daily driver. With an A4 and a few mods, it gets very close to S4 territory and appearance looks identical to most people.

And I still have my M3 with a manual transmission for weekend fun.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Z K

This is the reason why I got an A4 for my every day car. The premium for the S4 wasn't worth it for me as a daily driver. With an A4 and a few mods, it gets very close to S4 territory and appearance looks identical to most people.

And I still have my M3 with a manual transmission for weekend fun.

An A4 is a 4 banger so I don't know how that is close so the S4s 6 unless you are talking about the old gen...

The S3 is automatically Quattro, comes with a much more powerful engine, better brakes and better suspension standard... I think the price difference between a base S3 and a fully loaded A3 isn't as great as you would think... I think the difference between a typical S and A car is greater than an S and RS car... This holds true even at the S7 and RS7 levels.

A fully loaded equal A3 in Quattro w Sport Suspension is $39k... not sure who would make that decision when for $42k you get an S3 with more standard options, a better engine, better brakes, better seats... and that is if u can even find a fully loaded A3.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by ASAP

An A4 is a 4 banger so I don't know how that is close so the S4s 6 unless you are talking about the old gen...

The S3 is automatically Quattro, comes with a much more powerful engine, better brakes and better suspension standard... I think the price difference between a base S3 and a fully loaded A3 isn't as great as you would think... I think the difference between a typical S and A car is greater than an S and RS car... This holds true even at the S7 and RS7 levels.

A fully loaded equal A3 in Quattro w Sport Suspension is $39k... not sure who would make that decision when for $42k you get an S3 with more standard options, a better engine, better brakes, better seats... and that is if u can even find a fully loaded A3.

I'm saying close as in performance. With Stage 1, you're already pushing 314hp and 390 torque. Stage 2 will take you to S4 power levels. Brakes are nearly the same, and a bolt on upgrade to the A4. Suspension is identical if you get the sport suspension. Exterior body is identical as well. Sure, you don't get a 6 cylinder soundtrack to go with it but a tuned A4 will surprise many a S4. I know from experience.

As for the A3, I don't know about your area, but there's a ton of loaded Prestige A3s at the dealer here. Asking price is $43k+ for one of those A3.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Z K

I'm saying close as in performance. With Stage 1, you're already pushing 314hp and 390 torque. Stage 2 will take you to S4 power levels. Sure, you don't get a 6 cylinder soundtrack to go with it but a tuned A4 will surprise many a S4.

As for the A3, I don't know about your area, but there's a ton of loaded Prestige A3s at the dealer here. Asking price is $43k+ for one of those A3.

That price would be base S3 pricing...

[Z K]

Originally Posted by ASAP

That price would be base S3 pricing...

Which is more well equipped for each level. So the Prestige A3 has the equipment level of a S3 Premium Plus.

Regardless, the price difference is minimal if you factor in the same equipment level minus the engine.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Z K

Which is more well equipped for each level. So the Prestige A3 has the equipment level of a S3 Premium Plus.

Regardless, the price difference is minimal if you factor in the same equipment level minus the engine.

Right... so why would anyone buy an A3?

[Z K]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Right... so why would anyone buy an A3?

Because people want the better fuel economy and don't need the power. And they do save a bit of money overall. I'm sure the dealers are more open to bargain on a loaded A3 (bigger margin) than the S3.

I nearly purchased a preowned A3 Prestige when I was shopping for the A4. But the lack of sport seats killed that option. The normal seats are flat and didn't feel good.

But as I said, A and S models are very close together in price and options. Plus a stage 1 flash on a A3 takes the power to 320hp... so then the difference is really minimal.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Z K

Because people want the better fuel economy and don't need the power. And they do save a bit of money overall. I'm sure the dealers are more open to bargain on a loaded A3 (bigger margin) than the S3.

I nearly purchased a preowned A3 Prestige when I was shopping for the A4. But the lack of sport seats killed that option. The normal seats are flat and didn't feel good.

But as I said, A and S models are very close together in price and options. Plus a stage 1 flash on a A3 takes the power to 320hp... so then the difference is really minimal.

I find the same for the S and the RS... thr mid range S seems like the best deal to me, especially when used.... isnt the S3, the only one w an iron block?

[smrtypants44]

Originally Posted by Z K

Which is more well equipped for each level. So the Prestige A3 has the equipment level of a S3 Premium Plus.

Regardless, the price difference is minimal if you factor in the same equipment level minus the engine.

I don't think the bold is true.

2018

A3 Prestige: ACC, B/O sound, virtual cockpit, high beam assistant $44k (sport package $650)
S3 Premium Plus: sport suspension, no ACC, no B/O, no virtual cockpit, $44k
S3 Prestige: ACC. sport suspension, B/O sound, Virtual Cockpit, high beam assistant: $49k

Mag Ride, and S sport Nappa leather seats (manual...why?) are options on s3 prestige

So ~$4k gets you a bigger turbo, +72hp

[HBird]

Very nice pickup (I'm a bit biased myself). I'm interested to see how it compares to your past experiences in the long run, as I'm straying towards a M2 vs a RS3 for the future.

S3s are great cars for the money (especially used) and I still get a kick out of mine.

[Mr Carrots]

Flashing an Audi/VW is an insta TD1 and bye bye warranty

I agree the s3 is pretty fun flashed (sadly its decidely unfun stock) but I wouldn't buy a new one because of audis over zealous warranty policing

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

Flashing an Audi/VW is an insta TD1 and bye bye warranty

I agree the s3 is pretty fun flashed (sadly its decidely unfun stock) but I wouldn't buy a new one because of audis over zealous warranty policing

I think the Jb4 is also available for it...