[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Here's a much more preferable choice, to buy, to drive, to live with, to service, and to be helped by the manufacturer if the need arises (less likely, of course!)

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/

That’s awesome! I didn’t realize the accord still came in a manual. It looks too big though, I’m not sure it handles anywhere near as well as the GLI.

What do you think?

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by c1pher

It’s at a compelling price point but there are a lot of options there. I would prefer an actual GTI over the GLI. I have it stuck in my head that the GLI is for someone who wanted a GTI but needs to blend in even more than a GTI does.

I’d buy a used S3 if I wanted a sedan or spring for a Golf R....at least they have AWD.

Amen!! Good points!

I can never justify an R. The reviews always say the Gti is the better car, especially when you factor in the $5-10k premium for the haldex all wheel drive.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

That's awesome! I didn't realize the accord still came in a manual. It looks too big though, I'm not sure it handles anywhere near as well as the GLI.

What do you think?

The Accord is Passat sized. You could compare the Jetta to the Civic Si to keep it fair. The Civic drives great but is eye bleedingly ugly inside and out and there's no hiding that it's a 1.5L engine with a good amount of lag.

The Accord is a great car with a wildly better design, inside and out than the poor Civic. But the Civic is larger than the Jetta (and an F30) so the Accord is quite a bit larger.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The Accord is Passat sized. You could compare the Jetta to the Civic Si to keep it fair. The Civic drives great but is eye bleedingly ugly inside and out and there's no hiding that it's a 1.5L engine with a good amount of lag.

The Accord is a great car with a wildly better design, inside and out than the poor Civic. But the Civic is larger than the Jetta (and an F30) so the Accord is quite a bit larger.

I thought we were looking for a 3 Series alternative with MT, as that is where the MT was most recently dropped. The CandD review is quite encouraging for enjoyable DD usage!

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I thought we were looking for a 3 Series alternative with MT, as that is where the MT was most recently dropped. The CandD review is quite encouraging for enjoyable DD usage!

The Accord is still a good bit larger than the G20, but at least it uses a detuned Civic Type R motor, not the Civic Si lump.

I left BMW because of the lack of a manual in the F31, went to a GTI and can't say I've missed BMW since. Manuals are fun and it's stupid of BMW to move away from them except for the M cars. Oops, really just M Car. Or M Car and a half, M2 and M3 Pure.

[squelchy451]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I left BMW because of the lack of a manual in the F31, went to a GTI and can't say I've missed BMW since. Manuals are fun and it's stupid of BMW to move away from them except for the M cars. Oops, really just M Car. Or M Car and a half, M2 and M3 Pure.

It's not stupid of BMW to move away from manuals.
Not enough people are buying them and the clever bean counters decided that it's more profitable to have just an auto-only lineup for the non-M models.
Such a shame BMW caters so much to the crossover crowd but won't give a manual in one of their most iconic cars still produced today.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by squelchy451

It's not stupid of BMW to move away from manuals.
Not enough people are buying them and the clever bean counters decided that it's more profitable to have just an auto-only lineup for the non-M models.
Such a shame BMW caters so much to the crossover crowd but won't give a manual in one of their most iconic cars still produced today.

I get it, but they have also jeopardized their loyal fans that bought their cars because of good handling, reasonable weight and nice steering feel. Short term sales grabs don't always pay off.

[P1]

Always been a big VW fan and probably always will be, but not sure if I'd ever buy a Jetta. For me it would be a Golf GTI over this.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I get it, but they have also jeopardized their loyal fans that bought their cars because of good handling, reasonable weight and nice steering feel. Short term sales grabs don't always pay off.

I read a bunch of reviews saying the new G20 3 series steering is better and went to drive it. I took a loaded 330i M Sport model for an extended test drive. The car has gotten huge! The steering is a bit better but BMW has definitely lost it with the driving experience. With the huge size and the lackluster feeling, it's not a compelling drive. The new Audi A4 is a much better driving experience and the build quality is top notch.

In today's world where a giant Porsche Panamera feels like a nimble sports car at speed, I don't see how BMW became such terrible driving cars. If their aim its to become a (less reliable) Toyota Camry, they've acheived it.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Anything from VWAG from VW to Audi? Never again! Not after the last experience with quality and customer care. I no longer care about their products...not a nickle to them ever...for anything.

Ditto!

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Z K

I read a bunch of reviews saying the new G20 3 series steering is better and went to drive it. I took a loaded 330i M Sport model for an extended test drive. The car has gotten huge! The steering is a bit better but BMW has definitely lost it with the driving experience. With the huge size and the lackluster feeling, it's not a compelling drive. The new Audi A4 is a much better driving experience and the build quality is top notch.

In today's world where a giant Porsche Panamera feels like a nimble sports car at speed, I don't see how BMW became such terrible driving cars. If their aim its to become a (less reliable) Toyota Camry, they've acheived it.

Ha, you can even buy a BMW at a Toyota dealership now.

To be fair, we drove and really enjoyed an X3 M40i, but it didn't translate as well to the 30i version. One was too wound up and one was too sedate. We ended up with a Q5 that felt a lot like a mix of the two BMW versions and has much better technology.

It's a little large for our needs and we'll likely either wait for the upcoming smaller eTron SUV or get an SQ3 or RS Q3 when they arrive. I double we'll even stop by the BMW dealer, having driven the X1 and X2, I cant see either becoming significantly better.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by P1et

Always been a big VW fan and probably always will be, but not sure if I'd ever buy a Jetta. For me it would be a Golf GTI over this.

But they have a catchy marketing slogan!! Betta getta jetta!!