[The HACK]

He uses WORST CASE SCENARIOS for both cases against EVs. WORST. Case. Scenario.

Yes if you live in a state like West Virginia where the majority of your electric power comes from mandated use of COAL, yeah, it's not going to be as clean to drive electric.

But then again, if you live in a state like West Virginia, there are other things to worry about than where your electricity come from. For example, your gene pool.

[ItsGary]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The future will be cleaner....

Replying to this again. Another accurate representation would be having the coal burning in the back with the Diesel also. However the artist of this picture removed that in an attempt to make a point which blind followers will think is "100% accurate"

Regardless of if you drive an electric or diesel, there will still be a plant burning coal or some sort of other non-renewable energy that's contributing to pollution. However removing the diesel vehicle will result in one less VEHICLE contributing to carbon monoxide pollution.

I personally don't care about the whole electric car vs ICE cars. Mainly cause I have V8 with no cats lol, but its not hard for me to admit that electric is the future, and that there is A LOT of misconception about electric vehicles and mining for Lithium. I remember seeing a picture of a coal mine being spread around saying "This is Teslas Lithium mine" but after doing my own research it turned out that picture was really a copper mine lol.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by ItsGary

Replying to this again. Another accurate representation would be having the coal burning in the back with the Diesel also. However the artist of this picture removed that in an attempt to make a point which blind followers will think is "100% accurate"

Regardless of if you drive an electric or diesel, there will still be a plant burning coal or some sort of other non-renewable energy that's contributing to pollution. However removing the diesel vehicle will result in one less VEHICLE contributing to carbon monoxide pollution.

I personally don't care about the whole electric car vs ICE cars. Mainly cause I have V8 with no cats lol, but its not hard for me to admit that electric is the future, and that there is A LOT of misconception about electric vehicles and mining for Lithium. I remember seeing a picture of a coal mine being spread around saying "This is Teslas Lithium mine" but after doing my own research it turned out that picture was really a copper mine lol.

OK . I see your point Gary . Let us first talk about China ...
The Chinese are walking in their streets with mouth masks on . It looks like a never ending smog/fog and it gets worse every day . The pollution is spit non-stop in the air by their growing poisoned industries .
It makes no sense . Because I'm pretty sure China is also on our planet earth

It's like over here...I pay every year 2,100 Euro's driver taxes , because my government says my V8 is dirty .While havy trucks are spitting their dirty diesel pollution in my face . So , nothing is changing , while they take my money ...
BS ! They are using the pollution to steal my money ! A cleaner word is *financial speculation* !
Everyone has to change everything on this planet ASAP . Also in China , otherwise the clean air is already lost in advance...of course also by financial speculation !
The future looks not bright Gary . But we can always start with ....*HOPE*
While in China they don't hope they must change . Do you see the problem ?
And BTW ...My yearly driver taxes won't change anything

[WestRace]

It's weird that an electric car mpge is dependent on gas price or region or different power plant.

Probably this is how it should be calculated which is independent of other variables.

The miles per gallon gasoline equivalent is based on the energy content of gasoline. The energy obtainable from burning one US gallon of gasoline is 115,000 BTU, 33.70 kWh, or 121.3 MJ.[8]

To convert the mile per gallon rating into other units of distance per unit energy used, the mile per gallon value can be multiplied by one of the following factors to obtain other units:

1 MPGe ≈ 1 mi/(33.70 kW·h)
≈ 8.696 mi/(million BTU)
≈ 0.02967 mi/kW·h
≈ 0.04775 km/kW·h
≈ 0.013 km/MJ

[Onizukachan]

Originally Posted by eluded

Not here where electricity is over 30 cents a KW hour and is randomly turned off for "fire risk".

It’s 29 cents here for home, but the car chargers are 60 cents for the ones work just installed last week to be “green”
In unrelated news not one employee owns an electric car and they’d be idiots to charge at work instead of at home. So that’s 6 parking spots gone for nothing.

[Soterios]

Originally Posted by Onizukachan

It’s 29 cents here for home, but the car chargers are 60 cents for the ones work just installed last week to be “green”
In unrelated news not one employee owns an electric car and they’d be idiots to charge at work instead of at home. So that’s 6 parking spots gone for nothing.

That's bizarre that your work is charging that much. I can't think of a single place in St. Louis that has employee charge spots that's over rate. Most are free. I have friends with Teslas that haven't paid a penny for charging because of this.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Onizukachan

It’s 29 cents here for home, but the car chargers are 60 cents for the ones work just installed last week to be “green”
In unrelated news not one employee owns an electric car and they’d be idiots to charge at work instead of at home. So that’s 6 parking spots gone for nothing.

Just because your employer is rippng off BEV drivers doesn't mean that BEVs are bad, just that your employer may be.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

Just because your employer is rippng off BEV drivers doesn't mean that BEVs are bad, just that your employer may be.

It isn't any different than the $4.50 "convenience fee" that the corner commercial bank charges me when I use their ATM to withdraw money from my credit union account.....

[allinon72]

We should all be clamoring for the free energy technology to come from behind the curtain instead of arguing over coal.

[bagekko]

MPGe only takes into account for the cost of electricity, it does not factor in the supply services, fees, taxes, etc from your electric bill. The "cost" of electricity is usually about 1/2 your bill and all the other stuff in total is the other 1/2.

Any EV vs gas or MPGe does this, thats why the numbers are complete garbage.

Also in the NE we have summer rates and winter rates, the winter rates are jacked to subsidize electricity for the poor. Electricity is so high in the winter EV's pretty much cost more than a full efficient ICE.

Originally Posted by WestRace

The equivalent of an electric vehicle mpg is about 90mpg that taken into account everything. If that's accurate then, then electric vehicles should be more efficient, but the problem is I don't know if they take into account EVERYTHING. How about the cost of mining Lithium? How about the cost of recycling old Li-on batteries? Another thing is the amount of Lithium raw materials on the entire earth is limited and even more so than oil. So if everybody were to drive an electric car, they may not be enough lithium raw materials for everybody.

I hope they look into fuel cell. Although you also need battery to store the energy generated from fuel cell but the amount of batteries here is not as much as a pure battery-powered car.

[WestRace]

All these electrification can get out of hands. Who in the world would buy a Harley Davidson electric bike :-).

Harley-Davidson halts electric motorcycle production.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...KBN1WT27N?il=0

[Soterios]

Originally Posted by WestRace

All these electrification can get out of hands. Who in the world would buy a Harley Davidson electric bike :-).

Harley-Davidson halts electric motorcycle production.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...KBN1WT27N?il=0

Who in the world is still buying a Harley Davidson of any kind? The electric bike was a desperate throw to stay relevant. Can't stay afloat when your only customers are aging boomers.

[allinon72]

Companies can reinvent themselves, if they have the appropriate leadership, corporate structure, and marketing. Harley is a paradox - it continues to go back to the well - which is middle aged guys who like loud motors, instead of innovating and going after a different customer base. It's proven to be too tempting to build the same old motorcycle, simply because they've worked themselves into a position where their survival depends on it.

[WestRace]

Yeah, probably desperate part on HD. Make sure your posts aren't the same :-) People there may end up working for food.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by allinon72

Companies can reinvent themselves, if they have the appropriate leadership, corporate structure, and marketing. Harley is a paradox - it continues to go back to the well - which is middle aged guys who like loud motors, instead of innovating and going after a different customer base. It's proven to be too tempting to build the same old motorcycle, simply because they've worked themselves into a position where their survival depends on it.

Harley is a niche. Niche markets are sweet if you have one, but far more companies *thought* they had a niche until someone came by and did what they do better, quicker, cheaper more efficiently, etc.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Harley is a niche. Niche markets are sweet if you have one, but far more companies *thought* they had a niche until someone came by and did what they do better, quicker, cheaper more efficiently, etc.

Or if your niche market is locked into a specific demographic that AGES without being able to bring in younger buyers to supplement.

Harley's problem isn't that it's a niche, but the typical buyers are getting OLDER AND OLDER and dying off. If you can't shake the stigma enough that middle age and retired males are the only ones that would buy one, you can't keep the 20-30-40 year olds to buy their first, let along 2nd/3rd or 4th motorcycle, you'll eventually run out of abled body buyers when your retired owners die, and your middle aged owners/buyers retire.

There's a good reason why 15 years ago, in the early 2000s, Harleys were all the rage (Harley Davidson F150 pick-up. Anyone remember that?). The same middle aged male who buys it for their mid-life crisis, these guys are retiring and buying another Hardly Ableson on fixed income isn't such a good idea...And today, middle aged male who suffers from their mid-life crisis aren't buying HDs since they didn't bother to even remotely shed that mid-life crisis male image back in the 2000s.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

It isn't any different than the $4.50 "convenience fee" that the corner commercial bank charges me when I use their ATM to withdraw money from my credit union account.....

Bad example. The correct example would be if your own bank was charging you that fee. Bad employer.

[Meeni]

Originally Posted by WestRace

All these electrification can get out of hands. Who in the world would buy a Harley Davidson electric bike :-).

Harley-Davidson halts electric motorcycle production.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...KBN1WT27N?il=0

To clarify, this article is about a temporary stop in production due to the discovery of a defect in manufacturing that needs remediation. The title is somewhat confusing the issue more than anything else here. They will presumably resume production in short order.

[SteveinArizona]

I think my post has been hijacked. My point was that we were lied to again. Whether electric cars are good or bad and whether diesels are good or bad doesn't impact on the falsehoods that are being sent our way.