Can I do a ceramic coating if the paint already has a Luxcare coating on it?

Glen e · 10-04-2021, 08:14 PM

I’ve been Detailing for 20 years , and was a general mgr of a BMW dealership and a BMWNA rep for 20 years. here’s my answers to your questions.

Do not confuse PPF with ceramic. Paint protection film is to protect against rocks and debris that would damage your paint finish. Is usually put on the front of cars. A ceramic will not protect you against the rock bashing into your car. It is used to keep the car clean and you don’t have to wash it as much.

XPEL is a great product. Go to their website and look for a detailer that applies it. Don’t let anybody charge you a huge amount to put ceramic over a PPF, because there is no prep. Paint needs to be polished and that’s quite a bit of labor so that’s why the cost goes up before a ceramic goes on , however with XPEL PPF you don’t do anything except wipe it down and apply the ceramic.

Anything that you have put on a car by a dealer can be taken off with a random orbital and polish application. A polish Such as Maguires 205 will work fine. Then A wipe down with the paint cleaner such as Carpro eraser and you’re ready to put on the ceramic. Everything a dealer sales for protection is total crap. It is usually a polymer, it is not a ceramic, their cost is about 60 bucks, and the sky is the limit on what they charge. They have nobody really trying to put it on and they certainly don’t do the right prep. Because it would take entirely too much time. It’s a wipe on/walkaway product that is nothing but dealer profit. Dealer Paint Protection is the new rustproofing scam…

BobBMWX3 · 10-06-2021, 08:45 AM

Thanks Glen. The dealers always look at me like I am crazy when I decline whatever special paint protection they offer. A dealer doing a full car protection in an hour is not going to do anything.

I have always taken to the cleaning and waxing myself at home. Using ONR (Optimum No Rinse) is quick. Using a detailing spray for drying, and then a spray on wax keeps things looking good for a long time.

I have never added a PPF. Unless you do the whole car, you will get chips and feel bad. I have always noticed cars with a PPF, lines, coloring, etc.

MD707 · 10-06-2021, 08:53 AM

I am blown away by these prices.

Full 5 year Labocosmetica on mine was about £600. So $850. That includes full paint correction before application (albeit on a new car, but one prepped by a dealer, so nicely swirled and scratched). 1.5-2 days labour. Market forces I guess.

I have PPF on the rear bumper lip but don't like the hard edges of it, which you can see up close.

Westside Guy · 10-06-2021, 09:02 AM

Thanks Glen for that detailed explanation. I knew that the Luxcare treatment was bogus and that was confirmed to me by the shops that I visited for either PPF or ceramic as they said it would come right off. I totally agree with you that treatments like Luxcare are no different than the old rust proofing/ undercoating scams that the dealers used to push on their customers.

Everything I have read about Xpel tells me it is a great product and I have moved forward with an allover approach for my new Z4 using their Ultimate Plus product.

Westside Guy · 10-10-2021, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen e

Do not confuse PPF with ceramic. Paint protection film is to protect against rocks and debris that would damage your paint finish. Is usually put on the front of cars. A ceramic will not protect you against the rock bashing into your car. It is used to keep the car clean and you don’t have to wash it as much.

XPEL is a great product. Go to their website and look for a detailer that applies it. Don’t let anybody charge you a huge amount to put ceramic over a PPF, because there is no prep. Paint needs to be polished and that’s quite a bit of labor so that’s why the cost goes up before a ceramic goes on , however with XPEL PPF you don’t do anything except wipe it down and apply the ceramic.

Hi Glen,
Many thanks for your guidance, I just finished having Xpel PPF applied allover my Z4 and I am about to have the shop apply a ceramic coating on top of it. He is a authorized Xpel dealer but he recommended using Ceramic Pro’s products instead for the ceramic coating over Xpel’s Fusion Plus product. He recommended applying 2 coats of Ceramic Pro 9H and then a top coat of their Ceramic Pro Top Coat on top of the PPF.

Based on your comment about the low cost of applying ceramic over PPF what do you think is a fair price for this job?

10-04-2021, 08:14 PM	#23
Glen e Retired from BMWNA 199 Rep 184 Posts Drives: ‘21 X2 m35i Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Fort Lauderdale iTrader: (0)	I’ve been Detailing for 20 years , and was a general mgr of a BMW dealership and a BMWNA rep for 20 years. here’s my answers to your questions. Do not confuse PPF with ceramic. Paint protection film is to protect against rocks and debris that would damage your paint finish. Is usually put on the front of cars. A ceramic will not protect you against the rock bashing into your car. It is used to keep the car clean and you don’t have to wash it as much. XPEL is a great product. Go to their website and look for a detailer that applies it. Don’t let anybody charge you a huge amount to put ceramic over a PPF, because there is no prep. Paint needs to be polished and that’s quite a bit of labor so that’s why the cost goes up before a ceramic goes on , however with XPEL PPF you don’t do anything except wipe it down and apply the ceramic. Anything that you have put on a car by a dealer can be taken off with a random orbital and polish application. A polish Such as Maguires 205 will work fine. Then A wipe down with the paint cleaner such as Carpro eraser and you’re ready to put on the ceramic. Everything a dealer sales for protection is total crap. It is usually a polymer, it is not a ceramic, their cost is about 60 bucks, and the sky is the limit on what they charge. They have nobody really trying to put it on and they certainly don’t do the right prep. Because it would take entirely too much time. It’s a wipe on/walkaway product that is nothing but dealer profit. Dealer Paint Protection is the new rustproofing scam… __________________ Glen Ft Lauderdale '23 228i GC Last edited by Glen e; 10-04-2021 at 08:24 PM..
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10-06-2021, 08:45 AM	#24
BobBMWX3 Second Lieutenant 179 Rep 293 Posts Drives: X3 M40i 22 Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: VA iTrader: (0)	Thanks Glen. The dealers always look at me like I am crazy when I decline whatever special paint protection they offer. A dealer doing a full car protection in an hour is not going to do anything. I have always taken to the cleaning and waxing myself at home. Using ONR (Optimum No Rinse) is quick. Using a detailing spray for drying, and then a spray on wax keeps things looking good for a long time. I have never added a PPF. Unless you do the whole car, you will get chips and feel bad. I have always noticed cars with a PPF, lines, coloring, etc.
	Appreciate 1 Westside Guy7494.00 Quote

10-06-2021, 08:53 AM	#25
MD707 Second Lieutenant 437 Rep 281 Posts Drives: 991.2 GTS Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: North London iTrader: (0)	I am blown away by these prices. Full 5 year Labocosmetica on mine was about £600. So $850. That includes full paint correction before application (albeit on a new car, but one prepped by a dealer, so nicely swirled and scratched). 1.5-2 days labour. Market forces I guess. I have PPF on the rear bumper lip but don't like the hard edges of it, which you can see up close.
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10-06-2021, 09:02 AM	#26
Westside Guy Major General 7494 Rep 5,297 Posts Drives: 22 Z4 M40i, 21 228i Retired Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Hallandale Beach, FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2022 BMW Z4 M40i [9.72]	Thanks Glen for that detailed explanation. I knew that the Luxcare treatment was bogus and that was confirmed to me by the shops that I visited for either PPF or ceramic as they said it would come right off. I totally agree with you that treatments like Luxcare are no different than the old rust proofing/ undercoating scams that the dealers used to push on their customers. Everything I have read about Xpel tells me it is a great product and I have moved forward with an allover approach for my new Z4 using their Ultimate Plus product.
	Appreciate 0 Quote