F1 2021: Turkish GP - Istanbul (Oct 10)

MKSixer · 10-16-2021, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F87source

It would be funny if max left rbr and joined Mercedes, then all of a sudden Mercedes can do no wrong.

Absolutely spot on!!

M5Rick · 10-16-2021, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F87source

First everything you've countered with so far is just opinion based, more he said she said, I saw he saw. None of that will hold up in a court of law.

In regards to DAS Mercedes already consulted with the fia ahead of time, of course they have a back up plan Incase teams cry too much about new innovations and try to trigger a ban. This is because Mercedes thinks 10 steps ahead and are always ready, unlike redbull who knew they were pushing the limits with the rear flexi wing that flexed down and also rotated backwards to change wing angle - more on the flexi wing stuff in a bit. but the point is redbull were pushing the limits of the permitted wing flex grey area and had zero back up plan in case it was banned. Mercedes weren't even in a grey area, they had full approval and still they are 10 steps ahead just in case.

Now in response to flexiwings we all know no material has infinite stiffness under load, there must be a small amount of deformation. Since there is a permitted tolerance range of course every team is going to try to get into that grey area to capitalize on any but of advantage. Now how far they push the envelope varies from team to team, redbull likely pushed the envelope too far with a wing that not only flexed down but rotated backwards, and Mercedes likely haven't pushed to the limit of the rules being breached hence why one was banned and one was not. Again there are actual number based load tests to test this deformation, aka actual fact and the fia increased the load test even further to test fit the front and rear wings deformed too far. Red bull got caught out likely because they were literally ok the limit before the imcreasd load test, and Mercedes didn't get caught off because they likely weren't on the limit. If it was true Mercedes was being favored, I don't know how when you have physical numbers to go back on to prove if a wing flexed too much - say Mercedes did have a wing that failed inspection and the fia swept it under the rug, then red bull would have forced a law suit if they really believed that was the case and when they test it in court Mercedes would get absolutely screwed over. Again it didn't happen.

Also don't forget, this is only really the first year Mercedes has been complaining to the fia alot, the last few years it was Horner going all out at every team getting things banned left and right. Literally look at the thread put up on Reddit discussing redbulls complaints all the way back to 2015, it's insane how many things redbull had pushed towards the fia. That's why they call Horner, Karen Horner.

Like I said before when you hinge on opinions and conspiracy you just jump from one thing to another regardless if it passes the sniff test.

Merc has had a huge advantage from 2014 (when the hybrids were pushed in) the engine and everything connected to it.
Montezomolo then Ferrari F1 boss has said that Lauda told him that Merc were building a hybrid since 2007 and Lauda didn't deny he told him that while he still lived.
So let's look at it now with Austin coming up,Merc are up on performance and gov. body say it's fine, that in itself is highly questionable.

M5Rick · 10-16-2021, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Horner => https://racingnews365.com/horner-ver...verstone-crash

'Ham was given a time penalty then went on to win', this is where Fia are a F* joke and are not fit for purpose.

F87source · 10-16-2021, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Merc has had a huge advantage from 2014 (when the hybrids were pushed in) the engine and everything connected to it.
Montezomolo then Ferrari F1 boss has said that Lauda told him that Merc were building a hybrid since 2007 and Lauda didn't deny he told him that while he still lived.
So let's look at it now with Austin coming up,Merc are up on performance and gov. body say it's fine, that in itself is highly questionable.

Again more speculation without proof. Back in 2007 mercedes didn't even have a team, they were just partnered with Mclaren. Back then it was Ferrari and RB being favorites.

Again you're only twisting it to your own narrative, how do you know mercedes didn't have to pull back power previously to ensure their only 2 motors left in the pool didn't fail? How do you know if degredation didn't cause a drop off in power? You don't and thus you start to speculate. Redbull had a huge power jump mid season that was suspect - the FIA responded and said it was fine. How come you aren't all enraged by that? That's right, because you're so insanely biased you cannot see the world clearly.

Chappers 71 · 10-16-2021, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKSixer

I did limit it to a couple of RBR fans...

I meant that I believe it's Max that they idolise it just so happens that he drives for RB, something rather unhealthy in it all imho

F87source · 10-16-2021, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chappers 71

I meant that I believe it's Max that they idolise it just so happens that he drives for RB, something rather unhealthy in it all imho

Imagine the salt if max looses this year, and RB next year is a mid field team because they dumped too many resources into 2021. I wouldn't be surprised if redbull dumped a bunch more resources into trying to ensure max wins, and thus compromises their 2022 generation car. They literally did the same thing in 2013 and it took them 8 years to catch up - well pu issues aside that is. I mean it did take them forever to understand their chassis (something that I was told was absolute BS and didn't need to happen for better development) and it still seems they don't fully understand it since the RB16B still retains some rear instability. So I wouldn't be surprised if RB gets caught off guard again in 2022.

Sure Mercedes have been working on a few upgrades, but apparently the majority of it was already done in silverstone and they just have a few bits here and there that were already done but not released such as the front wing.

MKSixer · 10-16-2021, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chappers 71

I meant that I believe it's Max that they idolise it just so happens that he drives for RB, something rather unhealthy in it all imho

That makes is even more creepy!!

M5Rick · 10-16-2021, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F87source

Again more speculation without proof. Back in 2007 mercedes didn't even have a team, they were just partnered with Mclaren. Back then it was Ferrari and RB being favorites.

Again you're only twisting it to your own narrative, how do you know mercedes didn't have to pull back power previously to ensure their only 2 motors left in the pool didn't fail? How do you know if degredation didn't cause a drop off in power? You don't and thus you start to speculate. Redbull had a huge power jump mid season that was suspect - the FIA responded and said it was fine. How come you aren't all enraged by that? That's right, because you're so insanely biased you cannot see the world clearly.

2007 McLaren-''Mercedes'' engine, the time of 'Spygate'

F87source · 10-16-2021, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M5Rick

2007 McLaren-''Mercedes'' engine, the time of 'Spygate'

Which was all Mclaren's fault since they did it behind mercede's back - hence why mercedes left them..... This was well documented too...

Like I said when you rely on conspiracies you literally lash out to whatever suits your narrative regardless if it will hold traction or not, if it doesn't onto the next conspiracy.

F87source · 10-16-2021, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKSixer

That makes is even more creepy!!

Having a favorite driver is normal, making him a roll model is fine.

It becomes a problem when it starts to twist your view points and make it so that every bad thing that happens to him (or any event that doesn't favor him) the fault of some other out side force trying to get him.

Chappers 71 · 10-16-2021, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKSixer

That makes is even more creepy!!

I can't be bothered to trawl back through all their posts to find it but one of them posted a pic of Max sitting back in a suspiciously tight pair of shorts, for me that's when the penny dropped

M5Rick · 10-16-2021, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F87source

Which was all Mclaren's fault since they did it behind mercede's back - hence why mercedes left them..... This was well documented too...

Like I said when you rely on conspiracies you literally lash out to whatever suits your narrative regardless if it will hold traction or not, if it doesn't onto the next conspiracy.

Come on now you're conspiring lol Mercedes were making the engines and wasn't dragging in McLaren,you are tut tut

F87source · 10-16-2021, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Come on now you're conspiring lol Mercedes were making the engines and wasn't dragging in McLaren,you are tut tut

You do realize this went to court right. IIRC the documents were chassis related not engine related, and In the end they couldn't hold McLaren fully responsible because they couldn't prove the Ferrari parts were used on the McLaren to benefit it.

The engineer that got the documents were also a McLaren engineer, and in the end Mercedes were in the dark because they only made the engine not the chassis.

In the end fines and punishments were issued, and Mercedes left McLaren as a result of what the chassis side did... So what does this have to do with Mercedes of today? The case went to court and the evidence was read and due justice was served. The only reason why you brought it up is because it fits your narrative, either way I don't really care to correct you. You're way too far gone.

Killed by Death · 10-16-2021, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F87source

Now in response to flexiwings we all know no material has infinite stiffness under load, there must be a small amount of deformation. Since there is a permitted tolerance range of course every team is going to try to get into that grey area to capitalize on any but of advantage. Now how far they push the envelope varies from team to team, redbull likely pushed the envelope too far with a wing that not only flexed down but rotated backwards, and Mercedes likely haven't pushed to the limit of the rules being breached hence why one was banned and one was not. Again there are actual number based load tests to test this deformation, aka actual fact and the fia increased the load test even further to test fit the front and rear wings deformed too far. Red bull got caught out likely because they were literally ok the limit before the imcreasd load test, and Mercedes didn't get caught off because they likely weren't on the limit. If it was true Mercedes was being favored, I don't know how when you have physical numbers to go back on to prove if a wing flexed too much - say Mercedes did have a wing that failed inspection and the fia swept it under the rug, then red bull would have forced a law suit if they really believed that was the case and when they test it in court Mercedes would get absolutely screwed over. Again it didn't happen.

This has to be the biggest pile of steaming horse $hit EVER posted reference "Flexiwings." Of course no wing can be completely static but MB fans lost their minds with RB's rear wing. Visual evidence and HAM's radio comment was all that was needed to change testing. Remember? It was a movable aerodynamic device!!!! Banned whether is passed previous testing or not!!!! But now legality rests on two elements? Talk about moving the goal post

MB flexing down on one axis is OK (Vertical strakes or support could easily fix this movement) but FIA looks the other way!

RB flexing on two axes is verboten (RB & others must redesign the rear wing)...No small task!!!

Hypocrites!!!!

F87source · 10-16-2021, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

This has to be the biggest pile of steaming horse $hit EVER posted reference "Flexiwings." Of course no wing can be completely static but MB fans lost their minds with RB's rear wing. Visual evidence and HAM's radio comment was all that was needed to change testing. Remember? It was a movable aerodynamic device!!!! Banned whether is passed previous testing or not!!!! But now legality rests on two elements? Talk about moving the goal post

MB flexing down on one axis is OK (Vertical strakes or support could easily fix this movement) but FIA looks the other way!

RB flexing on two axes is verboten (RB & others must redesign the rear wing)...No small task!!!

Hypocrites!!!!

Like I said there's a tolerance limit, how far you push into the grey area dictates that.

So at first RB's rear wing passed the test no problem, after a bunch of whining to the FIA they increased the load for the test and redbull failed. This means they pushed too far into the grey area. When retesting the merc front wing it still didn't fail any tests based on the parameters given - hence mercedes didn't push into that boundary as far as red bull did.

There's no such thing as "looks away", if they didn't test the mercedes front wing as per the rule book then again redbull would have a slam dunk law suit. What likely occured is like I said before, they're in the grey area but there is still enough wiggle room because they didn't push it to the absolute limit. Thus mercedes still passes tests.

In regards to what triggered the fia investigation, well mercedes likely played a butt ton of mind games with hamilton's radio call then launched a formal complaint to the FIA - IDK that's just how inter team politics works I guess. In the end the FIA did their tests and that's that.

///M Power-Belgium · 10-16-2021, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F87source

It would be funny if max left rbr and joined Mercedes, then all of a sudden Mercedes can do no wrong.

The only access to a Merc seat is to be a lap dog on a leash !

MAX's mission is to beat Mercedes to 5H1T.
Hopefully HONDA can close the gap ASAP and the RB-16B is fast enough in coming 6 races .

So actually your statement is funny ..

Bubbles · 10-16-2021, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yco

Awesome seats

Killed by Death · 10-16-2021, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F87source

Like I said there's a tolerance limit, how far you push into the grey area dictates that.

So at first RB's rear wing passed the test no problem, after a bunch of whining to the FIA they increased the load for the test and redbull failed. This means they pushed too far into the grey area. When retesting the merc front wing it still didn't fail any tests based on the parameters given - hence mercedes didn't push into that boundary as far as red bull did.

There's no such thing as "looks away", if they didn't test the mercedes front wing as per the rule book then again redbull would have a slam dunk law suit. What likely occured is like I said before, they're in the grey area but there is still enough wiggle room because they didn't push it to the absolute limit. Thus mercedes still passes tests.

In regards to what triggered the fia investigation, well mercedes likely played a butt ton of mind games with hamilton's radio call then launched a formal complaint to the FIA - IDK that's just how inter team politics works I guess. In the end the FIA did their tests and that's that.

Simply, what I'm trying to say is that RB didn't pass the eye test and got hammered with new testing.

MB doesn't pass the eye test and it's ignored!

Again, I get what you are saying and respect your opinion but HATE the double standard IMHO...Good nite all

///M Power-Belgium · 10-16-2021, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chappers 71

I can't be bothered to trawl back through all their posts to find it but one of them posted a pic of Max sitting back in a suspiciously tight pair of shorts, for me that's when the penny dropped

Man .Good lord ! I'm not religious , but I'll try to pray for you anyway !

"In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti"

F87source · 10-16-2021, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The only access to a Merc seat is to be a lap dog on a leash !

MAX's mission is to beat Mercedes to 5H1T.
Hopefully HONDA can close the gap ASAP and the RB-16B is fast enough in coming 6 races .

So actually your statement is funny ..

Hmm so kind of like the second redbull seat, except if you get that seat you won't get any decision on how the new car is built. You will get treated like garbage by marko, and you future is never guaranteed. So pretty much torture and toxicitiy.

Honda already introduced new electrical systems a couple of races ago so no more development there, and no more pu updates this season since a new pu was introduced start of season so unlikely for Honda to do anything. If they want to crank up the power to full beans and at that point who knows if the PU can hold up (might need another grid penalty then), Max's engines have a few races on them now so they're not fresh.

Either way if Max doesn't get a competitive car he might be gone (might be a possibility if red bull drops the ball on the 2022 car), and at that point if he goes to mercedes then I guess you will be the number 1 mercedes fan.