[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

I dont disagree but if you seriously knew how much flows through a billino $ company youd understand how 10s of thousands can run under the radar of the execs. Sure SOMEONE should be responsible for those smaller amounts but if the responsible person is the one doing the stealing then its tougher.

But realistically even WITH sticking to 1mm+ its still a really busy group. You have to delegate else youd need an army just to review every purchase, which would cost more than some of the transactions themselves. AKA like DETRoadsters story.

Without boring you with my resume and education, please believe that I do seriously know the financial dynamics of the largest corporations. While I can see how 10s of thousand can be run under the radar. What I cannot get my mind around is how an administrator at Yale could take $40 Million. It's not just the amount. This lady bought 8,000 computer tablets in 1 years alone! How the hell does that go unnoticed?!

The level of discipline I am used to is at the strict end of the spectrum for sure, and still it would be possible for theft and embezzlement, but not to catastrophic levels. If managers have to prepare capital budget AND operating budgets for each of their cost centers, and senior management had a "know your numbers or you are gone" attitude, a lot of the more serious cases would not happen. Set the tone at the top, make managers budget their businesses (both capital and operating budgets) and report variances monthly, and put reasonable controls in place and what happened at Yale couldn't have happened to the magnitude that it did.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

I work at a university. I can 100% see how this could happen, especially if it was a higher level person doing it.

...or a "grant-funded" program, which are usually managed like a personal fiefdom with mostly external oversight by the grant-provider. They do their own purchasing outside of the established procedures, and keep their own equipment/purchase inventory. Heck, some even do their own hiring and manage their payrolls.....

[shoei]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

...or a "grant-funded" program, which are usually managed like a personal fiefdom with mostly external oversight by the grant-provider. They do their own purchasing outside of the established procedures, and keep their own equipment/purchase inventory. Heck, some even do their own hiring and manage their payrolls.....

This. Gazelle's correct. Say in a Fortune 500 company, yes, lots of measures and safety nets are in place, usually through trials and tribulation (aka learning from one's mistakes)

I'm the case of Yale, other Ivy League schools, it's not unusual for them to receive hundred of millions from grants and donors, especially from prior alumni. That money which is more so a "rainy day" fund would not be as heavily monitored.

[Joe T]

We do quite a bit of business with Yale Univ and Yale Medical (in the millions annually). I see compete extremes, depending on departments. some spend stupid money, and know how to work the system (especially when it comes to p-card buys) other departments run on shoestring budgets and will spend pennies for projects and act like it was $10's of thousands

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

To your first point: Here's a quote from Lynn S. Paine that sums up how I think about this topic:

"Many managers think of ethics as a question of personal scruples, a confidential matter between individuals and their consciences. These executives are quick to describe any wrongdoing as an isolated incident, the work of a rogue employee. The thought that the company could bear any responsibility for an individual’s misdeeds never enters their minds. Ethics, after all, has nothing to do with management.

In fact, ethics has everything to do with management. Rarely do the character flaws of a lone actor fully explain corporate misconduct. More typically, unethical business practice involves the tacit, if not explicit, cooperation of others and reflects the values, attitudes, beliefs, language, and behavioral patterns that define an organization’s operating culture. Ethics, then, is as much an organizational as a personal issue. Managers who fail to provide proper leadership and to institute systems that facilitate ethical conduct share responsibility with those who conceive, execute, and knowingly benefit from corporate misdeeds."

I cannot comment on your second point because I don't understand it.

^^^ This is so right on.

During my 21 years at our local university, I witnessed at least 3 staff employees who brazenly did as little as possible. Management didn't do jack-shit about it, even though these 3 lazy-ass bozos were as obvious as hell to the rest of us.

Management response? Dump more work on the reliable employees who actually did an honest days work, every day.

It's been 10 years since I retired and it still fries my ass thinking about it.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by TSII

Sounds like most typical, large corporations where multiple divisions/departments are fighting each other over budget allocations each year.

Fighting over budget allocations is one way to put it. Another way to think about it is justifying expenditures as a key part of a manager's job.

In this scenario, instead of arguing or fighting one another, a manager has to prepare an operating budget for his/her business unit based on run rate plus changes that are forecast for the upcoming budget cycle and get that operating budget approved by justifying the need for the expenditures. That's not fighting over money, it's simply presenting the case. Same goes for capital budgets. If a manager forecasts the need for a capital expenditures, he/she should prepare a capital budget and justify the expenditures by presenting a business case. As is often the case, there is not enough capital to satisfy all capital requests. The capital allocation committee can review the business cases and allocate based on the best business cases. It's really quite simple really!

[M-technik-3]

This guy stole from our retirement accounts and under payed US!!

https://www.masslive.com/news/2019/1...employees.html

State AG let him walk free, Started another business in Texas after having another failed one here in Ma. AG Healy is now running for Governor of Ma when Charlie Baker leaves.

Bleep Her and Richard Bernard Jr.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

During my 21 years at our local university, I witnessed at least 3 staff employees who brazenly did as little as possible. Management didn't do jack-shit about it, even though these 3 lazy-ass bozos were as obvious as hell to the rest of us.

Management response? Dump more work on the reliable employees who actually did an honest days work, every day.

Have you looked at the real world yet? My DW's current employer is moving her between three locations, to cover staffing shortages in jobs below her pay grade. As soon as she walks in the door at one of these locations, the staff doing those jobs scatter like cockroaches...hiding for 3-4 hours at a time in their car or a store room playing with their smartphones while she single-handedly does all of their jobs while also trying to do the reports and stuff that she is being paid to do. Management at both the local sites and main office know exactly what these people are doing, and will not take action to fire/discipline them out of fear of not being able to find replacements to hire.

Yesterday was Wednesday, and it is the busiest day of the week by far at one location. My DW always stops her office work and helps out the team on Wednesday afternoons. Those slackers pile up work all morning and don't do a thing, sit and watch her do their jobs all afternoon, and then magically decide to start working again (doing what they should have been doing all day) as soon as the overtime clock starts. She left after 8 PM again, and those slackers were still there milking the OT cow while chit-chatting and goofing off. My DW isn't their supervisor/manager, but both are aware of the issue and lecture the staff about no more OT.....

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Have you looked at the real world yet? My DW's current employer is moving her between three locations, to cover staffing shortages in jobs below her pay grade. As soon as she walks in the door at one of these locations, the staff doing those jobs scatter like cockroaches...hiding for 3-4 hours at a time in their car or a store room playing with their smartphones while she single-handedly does all of their jobs while also trying to do the reports and stuff that she is being paid to do. Management at both the local sites and main office know exactly what these people are doing, and will not take action to fire/discipline them out of fear of not being able to find replacements to hire.

Yesterday was Wednesday, and it is the busiest day of the week by far at one location. My DW always stops her office work and helps out the team on Wednesday afternoons. Those slackers pile up work all morning and don't do a thing, sit and watch her do their jobs all afternoon, and then magically decide to start working again (doing what they should have been doing all day) as soon as the overtime clock starts. She left after 8 PM again, and those slackers were still there milking the OT cow while chit-chatting and goofing off. My DW isn't their supervisor/manager, but both are aware of the issue and lecture the staff about no more OT.....

Excuse me, the real world?

I was gainfully employed for 50+ years in the "real world" so I believe I had pretty exposure to all sorts of shenanigans, skaters and outright f-offs. You can include the Army in that long list of flakes.

Even though I've been retired 10 years (you might've missed that point), I still live and see the real world, some of it related to me by my two working children. They frequently deal with slackers in today's real world.

Until recently, my RN daughter was a floor manager at a local hospital. Two of her nurses flat out refused to do some of their assignments - pure insubordination. So (as in the spirit of this thread), my daughter went to her immediate supervisor for help. "Help" turned out to be a big f-ing ZERO! So, she went to HR. Another big f-ing ZERO! So out of pure frustration, over-work and stress, she resigned her management position and went back to straight nursing at another hospital.

So yeah, bullshit and slackers are endemic throughout management. Nothing new, really.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

Excuse me, the real world?

You had mentioned 21 years at a university, which speaking from my own 35+ years of experience in higher education seems to be isolated from reality. No offense intended.....

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

You had mentioned 21 years at a university, which speaking from my own 35+ years of experience in higher education seems to be isolated from reality. No offense intended.....

Cool, no offense taken.

For what it's worth, prior to my 21 years at the university, I did 23 years in retail consumer electronics. Started out as the janitor and ended up general manager and half owner. So, been on both sides of the fence.