[srbs73]

A couple of weeks ago, the ring doorbell caught a thief checking out my 1 week old i4. Since then, we've reverted to putting the steering locks on the i4 and iX1 overnight.

I also did a check on all the keys to ensure they were shutting off after 3 mins. Both keys on the i4 turned off as expected but the iX1 keys didn't.

I'm thinking this is related to the fact the iX1 has the Digital Key Plus which uses UWB? Does anyone know if the key fobs also use that and therefore not vulnerable to the current relay attacks?

[Tunners]

Originally Posted by srbs73

A couple of weeks ago, the ring doorbell caught a thief checking out my 1 week old i4. Since then, we've reverted to putting the steering locks on the i4 and iX1 overnight.

I also did a check on all the keys to ensure they were shutting off after 3 mins. Both keys on the i4 turned off as expected but the iX1 keys didn't.

I'm thinking this is related to the fact the iX1 has the Digital Key Plus which uses UWB? Does anyone know if the key fobs also use that and therefore not vulnerable to the current relay attacks?

As far as I can tell the key should go to sleep. See attached link.

https://u11.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&highlight=UWB

[srbs73]

Useful thread. I think the iX1 does use the UWB. Looks like the additional bit is the key works out how far it is from the car, so if it's being boosted, it won't respond.

[MontyB1]

They should go to sleep as above, but we put them in a pouch anyway just by default / habit as much as anything. I have steering lock on mine but she doesn't, it's used a lot more often so she doesn't like the hassle of taking it on or off all the time.

[srbs73]

Ours is definitely not going to sleep within 5 minutes. I was testing at the same time as the i4 with the motion key - put the keys on the wheelie bin next to the doors and time trying to open the door after 3m and 5m. i4 shuts off at 3m, iX1 I could open the door still after 6+ mins.

[MontyB1]

Mmmm that's not good, I haven't tested if it continues to be honest only that the punches work which they do.

Probably good we are still using them then maybe....

[srbs73]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Mmmm that's not good, I haven't tested if it continues to be honest only that the punches work which they do.

Probably good we are still using them then maybe....

As mentioned previously, looking at the other thread linked by Tunners, with the UWB key, the car knows it's not within a few metres and therefore ignores it.

Looks a lot more secure, as once you walk away from the car, the relay attack can't happen. With my i4 key, it's possible if someone followed me home, they could steal the car in the 3-5 mins it takes from me walking through the door, putting the keys in the drawer / 3 minute motion sensor switching it off.

After the incident a couple of weeks ago, resorted to steering lock overnight.

[metapod]

No sure if this makes you feel any better:
https://faq.bmw.com.au/s/article/Veh...language=en_AU

I tried recording and playing back signals from my key and it didn't do anything, but that's not as sophisticated as a relay attack.

[John27]

I may have misunderstood things but I thought the Digital Key (using mobile phone) uses UWB technology but the keys simply go to sleep in a couple of minutes but are not themselves, using UWB technology. Happy to be corrected on that.

Personally, keep the keys in a faraday bag and that in a faraday box at home and use just the faraday bag when out (signal can easily be grabbed when exiting the car in say, a car park). I also have Ghost 2 Pro fitted which hopefully makes it harder to steal even if they get the code signals.

[srbs73]

Originally Posted by metapod

No sure if this makes you feel any better:
https://faq.bmw.com.au/s/article/Veh...language=en_AU

I tried recording and playing back signals from my key and it didn't do anything, but that's not as sophisticated as a relay attack.

That article seems a bit misleading as my i4 was built after our iX1 but still has the same key as my 2020 3 series - seems to behave the same so doubt it's UWB as I don't have Digital Key Plus either (only Digital Key). iX1 key is definitely not turning off after 2 or 3 mins.

[srbs73]

Originally Posted by John27

I may have misunderstood things but I thought the Digital Key (using mobile phone) uses UWB technology but the keys simply go to sleep in a couple of minutes but are not themselves, using UWB technology. Happy to be corrected on that.

Personally, keep the keys in a faraday bag and that in a faraday box at home and use just the faraday bag when out (signal can easily be grabbed when exiting the car in say, a car park). I also have Ghost 2 Pro fitted which hopefully makes it harder to steal even if they get the code signals.

Found this thread which suggests the new keys do use UWB too:

https://g07.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2013576

Edit: also found this BMW page that confirms it. Got there in the end!

https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/bm...-wideband.html

[timesone]

If my X1 had manual transmission like my M2 the car thieves here won’t even bother

[SpaceSilver.X1]

Originally Posted by timesone

If my X1 had manual transmission like my M2 the car thieves here won’t even bother

also works great if you don't want the valet to park your car for you! especially at hotels that only have valet parking and no self-parking.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PN26_2Y35JA

[metapod]

You can't even get a manual 3 series anymore. Bigly sad.

[SpaceSilver.X1]

Originally Posted by metapod

You can't even get a manual 3 series anymore. Bigly sad.

even VW will no longer off manual transmission on the new upcoming VW Golf GTI(the last ICE).

after 40+ years of driving, I think it's about time that I finally learn to drive a stick shift, before it's too late?

[timesone]

Originally Posted by SpaceSilver.X1

even VW will no longer off manual transmission on the new upcoming VW Golf GTI(the last ICE).

after 40+ years of driving, I think it's about time that I finally learn to drive a stick shift, before it's too late?

lol I’m learning to drive dct

[SpaceSilver.X1]

Originally Posted by timesone

lol I’m learning to drive dct

so true....

when I first got the X1, it didn't feel like a "real" automatic transmission. I eventually figured out that it was more or less a manual transmission that was capable of shifting gears by itself. I learned to adapt myself to how the DCT behaved. I can almost anticipate how the DCT is going to do and accelerate/brake or make turns accordingly.

like I've said elsewhere, it was kind of learning to adapt to the way my cat behaved. Once I adapted, I was totally happy with my cat! That's the opposite of having a dog because a dog adapts to the human.

[COOLGREANY]

Originally Posted by srbs73

I also did a check on all the keys to ensure they were shutting off after 3 mins.

How do you check to see of the keys have shutoff?

[srbs73]

Originally Posted by COOLGREANY

How do you check to see of the keys have shutoff?

I put the wheelie bin next to the drivers door and put the key on top and set timer for 3 minutes, after that try and pull the door handle. On my i4 and previous M340i (had the same key fob), after 3 minutes pulling the door handle won't unlock. If you pick the key up, it will unlock again.

[MMandov]

There is no need for the key to shut off. We are lucky to be one of the few BMW vehicles that use UWB for keyless, which prevents relay attacks: https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeu...steme/keyless/

Use webpage translate to read it in English. ADAC is the top car association in Germany and seems to be pushing hard against legacy keyless that is more a tool for thieves than for car owners.
Here is a PDF listing all models tested. Also in German: https://assets.adac.de/image/upload/...312_idwlqg.pdf