[gonzo]

Originally Posted by MontegoGoGoGo

To take joy in and have FUN by killing another living thing is just fucked up.

People who do things like that (such as body slam the losing dog until it's dead, or electrocuting it, etc,) aren't wired correctly, and you never know what they are truly capable of.

When they profile serial killers, don't they usually find that 90% of them tortured and killed animals?

[MontegoGoGoGo]

His behavior THIS year is whatever his public relations team says it is.

That and I'll bet that it's part of some mandatory community service.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by MontegoGoGoGo

When they profile serial killers, don't they usually find that 90% of them tortured and killed animals?

I bet 100% of them also drive cars. While I don't doubt your stat (it does seem high) it doesn't mean that 90% of people who have killed animals are serial killers and that is what is relevant here.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by solefald

i wouldn't give 2 shits about him even if he cured cancer this year. what he did to those dogs is absolutely unacceptable. he should not be playing football right now, nor should he be getting this award

He was punished for those actions. Should he NEVER be forgiven? When will it be enough for you?

[Peanuto]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

...a little bit of an exaggeration, but you're telling me that Jeffrey Dahmer could have won this award had he "paid his debts to society" and did a hard year of community service?

Wow. Total exaggeration. But according to the description of the award...yup. Maybe the award should be altered to keep it's character but the way the award is written he is a viable candidate, regardless of what I think. I do agree that it is fucked up, but that is the way the award is given. Until they tighten the criteria of the recipients he is a valid nominee. The award does not take into consideration any criminal past. Don't think I am advocating him here. I think what he did was deplorable and I literally just got bitten by a jack russel five minutes ago and the lil effer tore my pants. But don't blame Vick for winning an award. And I fully agree he should not be allowed in the NFL. Goodell is a hypocrite when it comes to his cracking down on behavior. But the fact that he is in the NFL and the description of the award make him a candidate.

[Peanuto]

Originally Posted by MontegoGoGoGo

His behavior THIS year is whatever his public relations team says it is.

That and I'll bet that it's part of some mandatory community service.

With the scrutiny he is under on his probation, and public status, not even a good PR team can hide if he has fucked up. And I guarantee it is part of his community service, but where in the award does it say it can't be. Fact of the matter is whether he is forced to or not he is doing it. I don't agree with forgiving him, but him winning this award and it is only for the Eagles team, it is not an all NFL award, is not his fault. It is the committee of the award for jeopardizing the integrity of it. People should be protesting the award itself not VIck in this instance.

[KingOfJericho]

So a guy that goes to jail and serves his time can no longer do his job upon release?

[Peanuto]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

So a guy that goes to jail and serves his time can no longer do his job upon release?

I am not saying this. I am saying with the current moral fiber of the NFL and Roger Goodell it seems inconsistent how upon his release he was immediately reinstated and that his "suspension" was when he was in prison.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by Peanuto

With the scrutiny he is under on his probation, and public status, not even a good PR team can hide if he has fucked up. And I guarantee it is part of his community service, but where in the award does it say it can't be. Fact of the matter is whether he is forced to or not he is doing it. I don't agree with forgiving him, but him winning this award and it is only for the Eagles team, it is not an all NFL award, is not his fault. It is the committee of the award for jeopardizing the integrity of it. People should be protesting the award itself not VIck in this instance.

I guess we're kind of on the same page then. What I was trying to say was that this award doesn't mean shit and he's still a douchebag. The jury's still out IMO as to whether he's been reformed, and this award should be ashamed of itself that its candidates can be an axe murderer as long as they've done lots of community service (albeit mandated) in the year previous.

Amazing how many people were screaming for justice when the charges were levied, and now so many people think he should get his life back just because he did a lax stint in the pen. Same as what happened on 9/11, vs a few years later; crying that the terrorists are being mistreated. Only in America....

That being said, Vick represents a growing problem amongst professional atheletes (not to mention entertainers) that is more of a danger to this country than many care to see.... Crime, especially violent and heinous crimes, are becoming ever-more-apparent in these people who are typically role models to the youths of this country. Given how hard the times have been lately, the need for role models is as great as it ever has been, and as long as kids are looking up to violent criminals being rewarded so soon after such a violent act, we've got problems.

Given his high profile and impact on children, he should be held under a scope for an extended period of time before he receives any accollades or is given an opportunity to play again.

But, in the end, this entire argument is subjective anyway. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on this, and that's the way it should be.

[02themax]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

He's done his time and paid his debt to society. He is now speaking out against the practice which is very similar to many drug counselors who are recovered drug addicts. You mean to tell me they do no good now and are not deserving of any praise? I think you guys are what's wrong with our society. Once a ___ always a ___? Fuck that. Who do you think some ghetto kid will be more likely to look up to and take advice from... some liberal nerd in a suit saying "dog fighting is bad!" or an NFL player who has done hard time for doing it? I think the latter...

I agree with this statement. What he did was wrong and stupid but he did his time like a man.

[TP 135i]

OK...
The only reason......ONLY......that he is being "good" now and doing "good" things is because he got caught.....period.
And to make lots of big football money he needs to pretend that he is reformed and a good person....BS...it's all show.
There is no doubt in my mind that had he not been caught he would still be participating in dog fighting/abuse.

And that's a fact Jack !

[MontegoGoGoGo]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I bet 100% of them also drive cars. While I don't doubt your stat (it does seem high) it doesn't mean that 90% of people who have killed animals are serial killers and that is what is relevant here.

Instead of asking what percentage of serial killers drive cars, it would make more sense to ask what percentage of car drivers are serial killers.

And you're right, it doesn't mean 90% of people who have killed animals are serial killers (hunting, butchers, self-defense etc.), but it does show a high correlation between torturing and killing animals and being a serial killer - or just "not right."

[MontegoGoGoGo]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

I guess we're kind of on the same page then. What I was trying to say was that this award doesn't mean shit and he's still a douchebag. .

This.

[solefald]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

So a guy that goes to jail and serves his time can no longer do his job upon release?

I don't think I have heard of any felons [read: less privileged felons] who served a prison sentence and got their job back immediately upon release. Let alone getting any humanitarian awards a year after...

Sorry, but if i did something like that, there is no way in hell i would be able to get my job back with a felony on my record.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by solefald

I don't think I have heard of any felons [read: less privileged felons] who served a prison sentence and got their job back immediately upon release. Let alone gotting any humanitarian awards a year after...

Sorry, but if i did something like that, there is no way in hell i would be able to get my job back with a felony on my record.

But that's because your employer doesn't want you back... his actually did and you can't knock him for taking them up on it.

[solefald]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

But that's because your employer doesn't want you back... his actually did and you can't knock him for taking them up on it.

Yes, because NFL treats their employees like cattle and would take anything they can make money on.

Now try to get a job at a respectable company with a felony conviction on your record. I am willing to be money that you would fail miserably, unless you are willing to take a minimum wage job at some shady-ass place.

It would be a very humble thing for him to decline this award and pass it onto someone more deserving, but we are talking about Vick here...

[Peanuto]

How is Vick to blame for winning an award voted on by others? And again it doesn't matter why he is raising awareness and doing good things. The award should make it that "the cause of a player getting this award should not come from penance for any crime" but it doesn't say that TP135

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by solefald

Yes, because NFL treats their employees like cattle and would take anything they can make money on.

Exactly. Why should it be treated like a "normal" job when it isn't? If you're good enough at your job, any company would likely take you back. If you're a financial whiz and cop a drunk driving charge, you'll get your job back.

[solefald]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Exactly. Why should it be treated like a "normal" job when it isn't? If you're good enough at your job, any company would likely take you back. If you're a financial whiz and cop a drunk driving charge, you'll get your job back.

DUI is a misdemeanor, not a felony.

And felony charge would most definitely close the doors to *ANY* financial organization, even if you are Alan Greenspan himself.

[KingOfJericho]

Ok, great. It doesn't change the fact that the NFL is not an office job. It's a sports organization for the sake of Pete! It's not like he was reinstated as a Catholic priest, he was reinstated to throw a fucking football!