[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by 335iheLLraiseR

it is the eternal war between a windows user and a mac user. It is two completely different ideologies about interface.

I have Windows on all my desktops and laptops, but I have an Iphone.

[Javi335]

Consumerism consumerism consumerism consumerism ... your life is a lie, and you know it.

[dillon733]

iphone ftmfw

[335iheLLraiseR]

Originally Posted by BTM

Spoken like a true mac fanboy. I have an iphone and for a phone and what I use it for, I love it. It's all I need for a phone. I did jailbreak it though and like it much more now that I can multitask.

Macs are worthless in large corporate environments. Ask any systems engineer, there are so many holes in the OS. Mac computers are good for jobs that use computers for relatively simple/basic tasks, which is why so many lawyers and college students seem to like them so much. And rightfully so, they are excellently user friendly, are easy to type shit o,n surf the internet, download shit, and run MS Office, but that's about it. If that's all you need from a computer, then go for a mac. Corporations use computers way beyond this capacity, and trust me they have no interest in apple vs. pc "wars" or whatever you want to call it, they can't afford to use inferior hardware.

And you clearly don't understand the point of open source if you think it's for "having no rules." It's point is to develop the best product possible, for improvement and advancement, and not just limit the opportunity it to your own little group of developers. I'm not saying intellectual property shouldn't be protected if the developer wishes it to be so, but open sourcing has been a very successful way for developing code etc. Google has been the best thing to ever happen to the internet and is it's most profitable enterprise, and guess what, it's a leading promoter of open sourcing.

I'm not saying macs are bad or wrong or anything, they are great machines for certain users, for others not so much. This is coming from someone who loves their Iphone and has recommended Apples to numerous people, based upon their computing needs. I'm just responding the criticism that windows users are "blinded" by their work environments and that Macs are "taking over" and "everyone knows it" and is somehow butthurt by it....totally false. They do pay more for product placement, though.

thats funny given the fact that i dont own a mac. The only Apple product i/we have is the iphone.

But thanks for proving my point by giving your background & opinion.

Originally Posted by benmoooon

I have Windows on all my desktops and laptops, but I have an Iphone.

do you hate the iphone? if no, then that doesnt apply to you.

[radix]

Let me attempt to clear a few things up.

1. My official job title is Unix Systems Engineer. I feel that title is somewhat of a misnomer as "Engineer" has a very specific meaning with regard to standards of work and craftsmanship. Nevertheless, I've had that title for 15 years now.

2. I use a Mac. In fact, many in my profession do. Although I have no basis for this other than anecdote, I'd wager that there is a statistically higher percentage of Mac proliferation amongst those in my profession than of that in the general populace. There were Macs all over the place at the last USENIX ATC I attended. Jim Mauro gave his presentation on DTrace using a Mac IIRC. I may be going again this year, so we'll see if that's changed.

3. Open source (F/OSS) means different things to different people.

a. For some it is a means of producing quality software and nothing more.

Given enough eyes, all bugs are shallow. -- Linus' law according to ESR

Linus Torvalds is very pragmatic in his approach to OSS. Remember the BitKeeper saga?

b. Others, such as Theo De Raadt, place much more emphasis on the fact that OSS allows for greater security auditing.

c. To Richard Stallman (RMS), F/OSS means liberty. It is an ethical obligation of sorts.

d. In some cases, e.g. to distributors of certain closed source systems, F/OSS is simply a threat to their profit margins.

I've never heard anyone seriously say that F/OSS is simply about "breaking the rules".

4. Some major tech organizations use Macs. E.g., Google gives their employees a choice of a Mac or a PC. It's my understanding that, once again, there is statistically a higher percentage of Mac users in Google than is normal.

[Sara]

Just purchased mine. Absolutey ADORE it.

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by radix

Let me attempt to clear a few things up.

1. My official job title is Unix Systems Engineer. I feel that title is somewhat of a misnomer as "Engineer" has a very specific meaning with regard to standards of work and craftsmanship. Nevertheless, I've had that title for 15 years now.

2. I use a Mac. In fact, many in my profession do. Although I have no basis for this other than anecdote, I'd wager that there is a statistically higher percentage of Mac proliferation amongst those in my profession than of that in the general populace. There were Macs all over the place at the last USENIX ATC I attended. Jim Mauro gave his presentation on DTrace using a Mac IIRC. I may be going again this year, so we'll see if that's changed.

3. Open source (F/OSS) means different things to different people.

a. For some it is a means of producing quality software and nothing more.



Linus Torvalds is very pragmatic in his approach to OSS. Remember the BitKeeper saga?

b. Others, such as Theo De Raadt, place much more emphasis on the fact that OSS allows for greater security auditing.

c. To Richard Stallman (RMS), F/OSS means liberty. It is an ethical obligation of sorts.

d. In some cases, e.g. to distributors of certain closed source systems, F/OSS is simply a threat to their profit margins.

I've never heard anyone seriously say that F/OSS is simply about "breaking the rules".

4. Some major tech organizations use Macs. E.g., Google gives their employees a choice of a Mac or a PC. It's my understanding that, once again, there is statistically a higher percentage of Mac users in Google than is normal.

Geek. JK.

[335iheLLraiseR]

Originally Posted by radix

Let me attempt to clear a few things up.

1. My official job title is Unix Systems Engineer. I feel that title is somewhat of a misnomer as "Engineer" has a very specific meaning with regard to standards of work and craftsmanship. Nevertheless, I've had that title for 15 years now.

2. I use a Mac. In fact, many in my profession do. Although I have no basis for this other than anecdote, I'd wager that there is a statistically higher percentage of Mac proliferation amongst those in my profession than of that in the general populace. There were Macs all over the place at the last USENIX ATC I attended. Jim Mauro gave his presentation on DTrace using a Mac IIRC. I may be going again this year, so we'll see if that's changed.

3. Open source (F/OSS) means different things to different people.

a. For some it is a means of producing quality software and nothing more.



Linus Torvalds is very pragmatic in his approach to OSS. Remember the BitKeeper saga?

b. Others, such as Theo De Raadt, place much more emphasis on the fact that OSS allows for greater security auditing.

c. To Richard Stallman (RMS), F/OSS means liberty. It is an ethical obligation of sorts.

d. In some cases, e.g. to distributors of certain closed source systems, F/OSS is simply a threat to their profit margins.

I've never heard anyone seriously say that F/OSS is simply about "breaking the rules".

4. Some major tech organizations use Macs. E.g., Google gives their employees a choice of a Mac or a PC. It's my understanding that, once again, there is statistically a higher percentage of Mac users in Google than is normal.

I didnt mean breaking all the rules as in everyday life. i.e. piracy, or anything else.

I meant it in the way those who are proposing open source in comparison to "X", in this case it would be Apple.

And by far their reasoning is "X" doesnt let me do "Y". Instead of balancing the benefits and drawbacks of each.


It all pretty much boils down to human nature, we want what we cant have.

its a trend like anything else. Tea baggers, Vote for the Worst on American Idol, etc. There is one for everything. i guess it brings balance to the world.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by 335iheLLraiseR

thats funny given the fact that i dont own a mac. The only Apple product i/we have is the iphone.

But thanks for proving my point by giving your background & opinion.



do you hate the iphone? if no, then that doesnt apply to you.

You may not be a mac fanboy but completely misrepresented open source and are buying into the "wars" certain commercials (by both mac and pc) will have you believe...it's all hype. Get what's best for you, and we ended up making the same decisions iphone and PC users

[335iheLLraiseR]

Originally Posted by BTM

You may not be a mac fanboy but completely misrepresented open source and are buying into the "wars" certain commercials (by both mac and pc) will have you believe...it's all hype. Get what's best for you, and we ended up making the same decisions iphone and PC users

lol, true.

But in all honesty its really a core philosophical difference in how we want to manage --gasp---our phones, lol.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by 335iheLLraiseR

lol, true.

But in all honesty its really a core philosophical difference in how we want to manage --gasp---our phones, lol.

Jailbreak ftw

The blackberry I had was a piece, quality of hardware was terrible, which is a shame cuz I really liked BBM and Opera mini is just as good as safari IMO. I'm not very tough on phones, I maybe dropped this one like 3 times at the most, and buttons stopped working...my trackball was all fucked up...

[Alexander]

You guys are still geeks.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....dible60015.jpg

Droid Incredible. Awesome phone.

[jeremyc74]

My issues with the iPhone are:

A - Apple completely controls the apps for it, unless you want to jailbreak it, and never update it.
B - AT&T's coverage isn't as good as it should be.
C - Non-expandable storage
D - Can't be used as a tethered modem (although I understand they're about to change this)

I use a Windows mobile phone (HTC Imagio) and while it's not nearly as slick as an iPhone, there's plenty of software out there for it, and it's not nearly as restricted.

[Comet]

I was an extremely early adopter of smart phones.. the P800 which was released in 2002 if memory serves me well.
Every smart phone since up until the Sony Ericsson P1. I even had the terribad Siemens SX1 (and still do somewhere).
when the P1 hit, that is when the whole smart phone craze went apeshit.
I recall being mocked for carrying a brick, or remote control, or paperweight or whatever throughout all those years.
I despise both iPhone and Crackberries for simple reasons:

1- My P800 had more functionality than both of them. Welcome to 2002 Apple/Rim(job)
2- I the first crackberries were utter shit haven't moved up a great deal
3- current regular phones (if you know how to use them) can do all the business stuff that either one of those phones can. No one with a crackberry has been able to give me one reason to switch off my SE C901 to a crackberry for better functionality except for BB messenger. Same for iPhone. Besides a few cool apps here and there that I would use on super special occasions, no reason to switch.
4- full browsing? I have that on my phone, and guess what? the P800 used to run flash.
Welcome to 2002.
5- a crackberry/iPhone is never a replacement for a laptop and never will be. I don't care what anyone says, it is a hassle to work off of it. I used to take all my classnotes on my P800 and I used to use the BT Laser Keyboard (unfortunately, I am unable to find the charger for it). The novelty wore off after the 2nd semester and I got fed up of teachers bitching at me.
6- I owned one of the first unlocked iPhones. I sold it the next day to some eager person who saw it on me on the street. He offered me 1000$ for it and I was like "sure" and never looked into getting another one..
7- I hate people who act as if they are at the cutting edge of technology because they are using stuff available since 2002.

Well aware there were smartphones way before that.. My dad had the first Nokia communicator and the Ericsson R380, but I believe the revolution started with the P800

[Saintor]

Coming from the Palm world, I was reluctant to get one. Apple have always some kind of annoying limitations. Finally bought one and guess what, I found some.

Things that were simple on my Treo, that doesn't work on my 3GS. For example; no date push in Calendar. When you create a contact and specify a birthdate in Palm Os, it will be transferred automatically in calendar. No such thing in Apple OS (you have to create them manually or enter data via Outlook and sync). Also no categories for contacts (ridiculous). No task manager standard (ridiculous) and the free ones suck. Never found a proper substitute for Palm watchmaker (you can program different wake up alarms for days + have the ring stop by itself after a few seconds - my Treo continues to wake me up!).

Those annoyances aside, this is a superb piece of engineering. I love it. I thought that I would jailbreak it but in reality I didn't feel the need for it.

BTW, the 3G network rocks.

[radix]

Here's an interesting article that pertains to some of the previous discussion in this thread. Google is ditching Windows entirely now. All their employees will use Mac's or PC's running linux in the short term, although the goal is to migrate to Chrome OS in the long run.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d2f3f04e-6...44feab49a.html

[BTM]

Seems odd, I'm no expert but my uncle does a lot with computer/OS security for a company (I can't recall his direct job title right now) and is adamantly anti Mac OS based on how easy it is to hack if you want to, it's just an "illusion of safety" to borrow a quote since there are so few Mac users (relative to Windows) that there is little incentive to develop hacks for Macs...a negative network effect situation.

That said, I don't think Google would make such a move without knowing what it was doing...

[FStop7]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

My issues with the iPhone are:

A - Apple completely controls the apps for it, unless you want to jailbreak it, and never update it.
B - AT&T's coverage isn't as good as it should be.
C - Non-expandable storage
D - Can't be used as a tethered modem (although I understand they're about to change this)

I use a Windows mobile phone (HTC Imagio) and while it's not nearly as slick as an iPhone, there's plenty of software out there for it, and it's not nearly as restricted.

I think it's interesting that two of your beefs with the iPhone (B and D) are entirely AT&T's fault. That says to me that one of Apple's biggest mistakes with the iPhone was tying it to a single carrier in the USA. In other countries people have been able to use their iPhones for tethering for quite a while. Its only in the USA where AT&T screws us.

Hopefully Apple will start letting other carriers support the iPhone. AT&T has really abused their exclusivity.

[ragingclue]

Froyo.

[fdsasdasdf]

Also, Terminal BASH > Command Prompt. <3 Unix-based OS's.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by FStop7

I think it's interesting that two of your beefs with the iPhone (B and D) are entirely AT&T's fault. That says to me that one of Apple's biggest mistakes with the iPhone was tying it to a single carrier in the USA. In other countries people have been able to use their iPhones for tethering for quite a while. Its only in the USA where AT&T screws us.

Hopefully Apple will start letting other carriers support the iPhone. AT&T has really abused their exclusivity.

I agree, and I would have give it more serious consideration if those two issues were resolved.


Still, the way they control content is a pretty big issue for me. I don't want Apple to impose their morals on a device that I've paid for. If I want to run an app that puts dancing whores on my desktop, it's none of their business.

Another example is Trapster, and some of the Google stuff. I haven't been keeping up with how it turned out, but Apple had pulled both of those from the app store at one point. I have both on my Windows phone, as well as WiFiMini Router which lets me share my internet connection with coworkers while we're in the field.