[Sara]

Small fortune with horses. Started out with a large fortune

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by FCX5

https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2019/...-demographics/

Demographic of BMW owners...

spot on

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by FCX5

https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2019/...-demographics/

Demographic of BMW owners...

That's interesting because I just saw on Savage Geese that the average household income of a Porsche Macan buyer was $440,000/yr

BMW be slummin

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

That's interesting because I just saw on Savage Geese that the average household income of a Porsche Macan buyer was $440,000/yr

BMW be slummin

Porsche is in an enviable position. Interesting article about how Porsche has been able to reach younger buyers while keeping their heritage in tact.

https://www.stephenzoeller.com/targe...gment-porsche/

[vetteflier]

Originally Posted by Amazinjoey

People often talk about lazy immigrants but have you ever actually met one? I have met extremally few...
So my views might be abit scewed but most people immigrating(99% I've met) wanted to find a good job, work their way up and have a stable life while also supporting their family abroad. A big problem is them actually getting the jobs as recruiters would rather choose a Johnson than a Mendez or Abdallah. So in some cases they get jobs with their own culture and leads to not really assimilating.

Funny enough this was a big problem in Volvo some teams in their plants were all Finns and they only spoke Finnish with each other so a lot of them forgot Swedish even after living here 20-40+ years

Alsoa s someone outside of the US realm is that immigrations to a certain level is needed and beneficial to a country as long as it's done right. Aka getting them assimilated and out to the job market. Most people don't want to sit on their ass but do wanna work and socialize. They might cost the goverment money first 3-4 years but they will pay back taxes for 20-60+ years

Living in the SW for a number of years now, I can honestly say that Mexican immigrants are the hardest working people I've ever seen. With one exception from a long time ago when I worked in SE MA for TI after getting out of the Air Force: Portuguese immigrants. The best people I've ever had working for me in a long career in manufacturing and materials management. I welcome--legal--immigrants. My father was one from Germany long ago.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by FCX5

https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2019/...-demographics/

Demographic of BMW owners...

So based on this... here are the key points (keep in mind these are for NEW BMWs, not used:

-The average household income of a new BMW car or SUV buyer in 2020 is $124,800 per year.

-Our data shows that the median age of a new BMW owner is 56 years old, compared to 38 for the US population. The age groups break down like this:
24 years old and younger: 1%
25 to 54 years of age: 40%
55 to 64 years of age: 29%
65 years old and older: 30%

-Our data shows that 64% of new BMW buyers are male, compared to 36% female.

-90% of new BMW buyers own their own home. The remainder rent their home

-The median value of a new BMW owner’s home is $317,200.

-New BMW buyers apparently don’t have a lot of kids, or they’re grown up and have moved out. 75% of all new BMW buyers don’t have any children in the home, vs. 25% who do have children in the home. As with gender above, we thought we’d look at SUVs, which in general have higher ownership by families with kids. We were a little surprised that the percentages didn’t change much: 74% of new BMW SUV buyers do not have children in the household, compared to 26% who do have children in the household.


The thing I'm most surprised about is the average household income.
I can't imagine owning a new BMW if my household income was $124k. I'd probably be looking at the used market, or if I absolutely wanted new, something like an accord or a mazda3.

The rest of the statistics don't surprise me too much.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

So based on this... here are the key points (keep in mind these are for NEW BMWs, not used:

-The average household income of a new BMW car or SUV buyer in 2020 is $124,800 per year.

-Our data shows that the median age of a new BMW owner is 56 years old, compared to 38 for the US population. The age groups break down like this:
24 years old and younger: 1%
25 to 54 years of age: 40%
55 to 64 years of age: 29%
65 years old and older: 30%

-Our data shows that 64% of new BMW buyers are male, compared to 36% female.

-90% of new BMW buyers own their own home. The remainder rent their home

-The median value of a new BMW owner’s home is $317,200.

-New BMW buyers apparently don’t have a lot of kids, or they’re grown up and have moved out. 75% of all new BMW buyers don’t have any children in the home, vs. 25% who do have children in the home. As with gender above, we thought we’d look at SUVs, which in general have higher ownership by families with kids. We were a little surprised that the percentages didn’t change much: 74% of new BMW SUV buyers do not have children in the household, compared to 26% who do have children in the household.


The thing I'm most surprised about is the average household income.
I can't imagine owning a new BMW if my household income was $124k. I'd probably be looking at the used market, or if I absolutely wanted new, something like an accord or a mazda3.

The rest of the statistics don't surprise me too much.

There are probably lots of such articles, but most Americans are over spending on cars and likely a reason for the low savings rate.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/11/04/...ey-expert.html

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by FCX5

There are probably lots of such articles, but most Americans are over spending on cars and likely a reason for the low savings rate.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/11/04/...ey-expert.html

Right. Although this "10% rule" is a bit extreme. So someone making $500k can't spend more than $50k on cars? These rules are obviously made for people who aren't passionate about cars

[Jason]

Cleared recent political posts and members banned for violating rule.

[taek]

The average new car transaction price is $45,031.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/a...rice-increase/

So the 10% rule means the average person buying a new car should be making $450k per year? Seems ridiculous.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Something more realistic would be no more than 10% of your monthly net salary after taxes should go to your car payment. Although I suspect that alot of people blow past that too.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Right. Although this "10% rule" is a bit extreme. So someone making $500k can't spend more than $50k on cars? These rules are obviously made for people who aren't passionate about cars

I think they were saying if you make 500K/year, your max payments on car would be 50K/ year. So 4K/ month. That can get you into a nice car. Yeah, limiting to 50K for 500K would be a bit extreme. LOL

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by FCX5

I think they were saying if you make 500K/year, your max payments on car would be 50K/ year. So 4K/ month. That can get you into a nice car. Yeah, limiting to 50K for 500K would be a bit extreme. LOL

I'm actually reading it as the purchase price should be 10% of your gross annual income:

"Spend no more than 10% of your gross annual income on the purchase price of a car.

Why? Because the upfront cost of a vehicle isn't going to be the only thing you pay for, and cutting down your base price budget is the most effective way to save money.

If you make the median per capita income of about $42,000 a year, for example, you should limit your budget to $4,200. If you make the median household income of about $62,000 a year, don't spend more than $6,200 on a car."

So yeah... based on this I think they're actually saying someone making $500k should limit the purchase price of their car to $50k lol

[Acturater]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I'm actually reading it as the purchase price should be 10% of your gross annual income:

"Spend no more than 10% of your gross annual income on the purchase price of a car.

Why? Because the upfront cost of a vehicle isn't going to be the only thing you pay for, and cutting down your base price budget is the most effective way to save money.

If you make the median per capita income of about $42,000 a year, for example, you should limit your budget to $4,200. If you make the median household income of about $62,000 a year, don't spend more than $6,200 on a car."

So yeah... based on this I think they're actually saying someone making $500k should limit the purchase price of their car to $50k lol

As with most things in life the relationship is likely not linear. Disposable income likely increases at an increasing rate as you approach (and pass) 7fig income. That said 10% seems low by todays standards - prob a rule of thumb from the days when a single working parent could, on avg, afford a cushy life. Nowadays 20% is prob more like it. The unfortunate effect of wealth being concentrated to the Bezoses of the world financed by the rest of society. They’ve conditioned us to feel lucky at the mere possibility of becoming bitcoin / Tesla millionaires while they extract trillions in stolen social, environmental, economic capital.

Thanks for listening to my TeD talk.

[Humdizzle]

its extremely variable.

and not everyone is on a level playing field in life. some people have complete support from parents (education, no debt, free living until they are done with college, etc) some people don't. some know they have a trust fund and can spend everything they earn, some have to save for retirement or support their parents financially. some have alimony or child support, 3+ kids. some choose not to have kids.

so i'm sure you could see someone who makes 60k a year driving a 80k cayman and comfortably affording it.

and in another scenario someone who has a 150k income and cannot justify it at all.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I'm actually reading it as the purchase price should be 10% of your gross annual income:

"Spend no more than 10% of your gross annual income on the purchase price of a car.

Why? Because the upfront cost of a vehicle isn't going to be the only thing you pay for, and cutting down your base price budget is the most effective way to save money.

If you make the median per capita income of about $42,000 a year, for example, you should limit your budget to $4,200. If you make the median household income of about $62,000 a year, don't spend more than $6,200 on a car."

So yeah... based on this I think they're actually saying someone making $500k should limit the purchase price of their car to $50k lol

Yup. That would be cruel and unusual punishment. But you could technically buy a $50K car every year with this model! Also, they don't say how long am I supposed to keep it?

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Acturater

As with most things in life the relationship is likely not linear. Disposable income likely increases at an increasing rate as you approach (and pass) 7fig income. That said 10% seems low by todays standards - prob a rule of thumb from the days when a single working parent could, on avg, afford a cushy life. Nowadays 20% is prob more like it. The unfortunate effect of wealth being concentrated to the Bezoses of the world financed by the rest of society. They’ve conditioned us to feel lucky at the mere possibility of becoming bitcoin / Tesla millionaires while they extract trillions in stolen social, environmental, economic capital.

Thanks for listening to my TeD talk.

Right, I'm more or less just poking holes in the logic of that 10% advice. Look at it bottom up as opposed to top down. According to that logic... how do I afford a $50k car? When I have an annual income of $500k. That just doesn't make sense.

In reality people typically look at that equation (for standard car purchases) from a top down perspective. I make x amount, this is how much car I can afford. From that perspective, things change a bit if you're making $500k.

All this being said, articles and financial advice like these are meant for the average consumer. Someone with a household income around ~$60k annually, has credit card debt, student loans, and isn't financially savvy nor is particularly interested in cars and doesn't see them as much more than a means of transportation. Those are whom these "rules" are made for.

[jp1984]

Around 10 years ago, maybe more, I read that Warren Buffet is driven around in a Buick.

It is priorities people, some people take elaborate vacations 2x a year.

Frankly I consider all my stuff baubles in the grand scheme of things that will return to dust no matter what I do anyways.


I am just happy to enjoy what I have now, and that to me is prioritizing my vehicular endeavors. I also try to keep in mind that my hobby is incredibly stupid to some people so when I think the same of someones fine bead jewelry making obsession for a flea market, I actually listen and am interested, because I would want that same thing for me.

It is like I tell my dad, "At the end of the day, we are still just boys with toys, the toys just got bigger."

[VChenz]

Originally Posted by Acturater

As with most things in life the relationship is likely not linear. Disposable income likely increases at an increasing rate as you approach (and pass) 7fig income. That said 10% seems low by todays standards - prob a rule of thumb from the days when a single working parent could, on avg, afford a cushy life. Nowadays 20% is prob more like it. The unfortunate effect of wealth being concentrated to the Bezoses of the world financed by the rest of society. They’ve conditioned us to feel lucky at the mere possibility of becoming bitcoin / Tesla millionaires while they extract trillions in stolen social, environmental, economic capital.

Thanks for listening to my TeD talk.

You're right about the rule not applying when your income gets above a certain level (as long as your other expenses remain in check.) There's a lot of spending creep that happens when you make more money. I'm sure we all know of someone who makes 500k+ annually yet is always on the brink of bankruptcy because they wanna flex like a billionaire.

With that said...the ten percent rule really holds true for 80% of households. There really are wayyyyy to many people out there with cars that should not have one. I know people who justify owning a car to get to work but the job just barely covers their car related expenses. Sometimes you just need to take a bus, change jobs, or move. Too many people finding way to justify poor financial decisions. Car ownership has become a "right" vs a cost/benefit weighted decision.

Earning a 100k or even 200k is nothing in today's crazy housing market. Granted this is a regional phenomenon but if you're buying a detached home in many popular north american cities, you're spending close to a million. With a 20% downpayment you still have a 800k mortgage which is like $5k a month. Take your $200k annual...after taxes... $100k or $8300 a month take home (Canadian income taxes are brutal). After that monster mortgage...you're down to $3300.. still have to eat, pay property taxes, electrical, Netflix, insurance etc. Probably leaves you with $1000 a month. Still haven't saved for retirement or kids education. That's the reason you're seeing a 8 year old Mazda 6 parked in front of some of these really nice homes.


I commend everyone here who does have their shit together and has their housing and retirement dealt with. Most younger people (I'm in my 30s) generally don't and a BMW purchase is a "yolo" move. Granted some of us have figured out a low cost of living strategy to make BMW ownership palatable but for most...makes no sense.

[UPSROD]

It is not how much that you make, but how much you spend. I retired when I was 53, have paid cash for everything for the last 35 years. I have 7 vehicles. own my home and have never made over $60K a year.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by UPSROD

It is not how much that you make, but how much you spend. I retired when I was 53, have paid cash for everything for the last 35 years. I have 7 vehicles. own my home and have never made over $60K a year.

Inflation plays a role as well.

$1 today is a lot less valuable than $1 30 years ago. Irrespective of savings and other factors.

A $60K/y salary in 1995 is equal to a $107K/y salary today…



But I agree with you. Spending less than you earn and letting compound interest work will make you a winner overall.

[jailonacs99]

Originally Posted by UPSROD

It is not how much that you make, but how much you spend. I retired when I was 53, have paid cash for everything for the last 35 years. I have 7 vehicles. own my home and have never made over $60K a year.

This also describes a lot of my neighbors out here in the country. I'm not claiming most or any of those cars run though.