[chris719]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

If it's not a criminal issue and merely civil then money (damages) must be involved. Due process still matters in America in Civil cases because of the 14th Amendment. Perhaps not in the United Kingdom. Here's an overview of Due Process in Civil Proceedings from section 1 of the 14th Amendment.

I just mean from an employer's point of view. They can do whatever they want with him without waiting for findings.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

To work in the F1, testosterone fueled, circus arena, I would think females would need to have thick skin. I imagine all of the bathroom humor could get to some. But then again perhaps it's more serious - or perhaps not. Innocent until proven guilty. In legal terms it's called "due process" in America.

I completely agree that if you were the minority in a gang of coal miners, yes there can be some banter

However the person involved (it appears) is not a peripheral member to make up the numbers. said person is direct assistant to the principal. that changes the picture for me.

that means said person is out there for vendetta (ie nothing bad actually happened - eg a demanding boss), or said person has been chronically harrassed as claimed.

or both. doesn't sound criminal though, if it were criminal they wouldn't have waited years and collected a stream of app screenshots and keeping quiet for years.

so i think there is a bit of both. but who is out there to get CH. is it just the person?

i think someone else using this as ammunition because said person probably confided in someone some time last year, and bingo, let's set this up and see what happens sort of a thing.

fireworks alright

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by g21

I completely agree that if you were the minority in a gang of coal miners, yes there can be some banter
However the person involved (it appears) is not a peripheral member to make up the numbers. said person is direct assistant to the principal. that changes the picture for me.
that means said person is out there for vendetta (ie nothing bad actually happened - eg a demanding boss), or said person has been chronically harrassed as claimed.
or both. doesn't sound criminal though, if it were criminal they wouldn't have waited years and collected a stream of app screenshots and keeping quiet for years.
so i think there is a bit of both. but who is out there to get CH. is it just the person?
i think someone else using this as ammunition because said person probably confided in someone some time last year, and bingo, let's set this up and see what happens sort of a thing.
fireworks alright

Depends on the dynamics of the work relationship. Often any such complaint is the culmination of a situation that has escalated over time.

Imagine your boss repeatedly behaving in a way that you perceive as disturbing/inappropriate (regardless whether others think likewise). You give repeated signs to your boss that you dislike that behavior and that the behavior should stop or change. Your boss ignores most or all of your signs (maybe your boss considers not doing anything disturbing/inappropriate at all or maybe the boss's mind got substantially clouded because, unfortunately for you, you have become his/her love interest). You experience the situation as toxic and feel terrible because of the hierarchy situation (you want to keep your job).

Your options: you request the boss to address the situation with due respect asap; you could reach out to a trusted person to discuss the situation; you could file a complaint; you could leave.

Maybe you're right: common understanding that your boss can be blamed. Maybe you're wrong: common understanding that your boss cannot be blamed.

In this matter the female employee blames Horner (according to "De Telegraaf" newspaper, her claim is documented with evidence). Horner considers that he cannot be blamed (strongly denying all allegations, describing these as "nuts"). Let's wait and see what the external investigator and Red Bull management think about it.

[M5Rick]

So who the mole was who went to De Telegraaph and as it is a Dutch paper I am convinced it was someone outside the team that was told of the complainants accusations.

[Sneaky Pete]

Horner allegedly offering a huge money settlement to the woman involved is going to weigh heavily against him.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Horner allegedly offering a huge money settlement to the woman involved is going to weigh heavily against him.

Forgot about that. Yes, if true, that itself would be incriminating enough, a sign of guilt. Unless I've missed something Artemis ?

[M5Rick]

What a s#it show this is turning into by the minute..

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by chris719

I just mean from an employer's point of view. They can do whatever they want with him without waiting for findings.

Only IF CH's employment contract states his employment is "at will". Otherwise RB needs to be very careful about potential unfair dismissal actions.

[DrFerry]

Shall we end this thread?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by g21

Forgot about that. Yes, if true, that itself would be incriminating enough, a sign of guilt. Unless I've missed something Artemis ?

The Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf claims to know about a £650K proposal. OK, it's an established newspaper so we may assume that they did their homework properly prior to posting this. But did other sources confirm this claim, independently from De Telegraaf ?

If legit: we cannot beat around the bush, £650K is lavish. But that ain't as such "incriminating enough" / "a sign of guilt". We don't know what the employee earned, her seniority, bonuses, perks, prospects, access to confidential RBR and Horner info and materials. So it could be a redundancy fee package proposal to compensate dismissal, to ensure confidentiality about RBR and Horner business secrets, to ensure not to move to another F1 team (non-competition), moral distress resulting from leaving the globetrotting F1 community, losing lots of social media traffic as no new F1 content is posted anymore, etc. Also: maybe other RBR employees stood up for the employee, insisting that she would get properly compensated for all her hard work and availability ?

Anyways, according to the Dutch newspaper, the female employee has rejected the alleged offer.

[Sneaky Pete]

If the payout offer isn't enough...You would imagine that the offended woman would not have started this all unless she had some pretty decent evidence such as text messages to back up her complaint.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Artemis

We don't know what the employee earned, her seniority, bonuses, perks, prospects, access to confidential RBR and Horner info and materials. So it could be a redundancy fee package proposal to compensate dismissal, to ensure confidentiality about RBR and Horner business secrets, to ensure not to move to another F1 team (non-competition), moral distress resulting from leaving the globetrotting F1 community, losing lots of social media traffic as no new F1 content is posted anymore, etc. Also: maybe other RBR employees stood up for the employee, insisting that she would get properly compensated for all her hard work and availability ?

that's what i missed

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

If the payout offer isn't enough...You would imagine that the offended woman would not have started this all unless she had some pretty decent evidence such as text messages to back up her complaint.

maybe the other RB faction is offering to double the amount to persue the chaos

all speculation of course but not impossible

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by g21

maybe the other RB faction is offering to double the amount to persue the chaos
all speculation of course but not impossible

When the story broke, "inappropriate controlling behavior" or "incredibly controlling behavior" was mentioned.

The Dutch journalist Erik van Haren headlined last Friday "sexual transgressive behavior" and that "the row within the F1 team Red Bull Racing regarding the independent investigation into team boss Christian Horner appears to be one of big proportions".

[Car-Addicted]

So much fun to stir the pot
Wolff says Horner investigation must be ‘a process with rigor’
Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff (pictured above) says the Red Bull investigation into Christian Horner needs to be “a process with rigor” to live up to the standards Formula 1 wants to maintain.
“I think it’s clear,” Wolff said ahead of preseason testing in Bahrain. “Formula 1 and what the teams do, we stand for inclusion, equality, fairness, diversity. And it’s not only talking about it, but living it day in, day out. I think these are the standards that we’re setting ourselves. We live in a global sport, one of the most important sports platforms in the world, and we are role models.
Horner, who denies the allegations, is due to appear during an F1-organized press conference on Thursday during the lunch break on the second day of testing at the Bahrain International Circuit.
https://racer.com/2024/02/21/wolff-s...ss-with-rigor/

That should crank a couple of you guys up for a couple more days.

[Marcoose]

There have been settlements paid to make annoying nothing burgers go away. But usually that's the exception. If there's a settlement usually it means there's proof of wrongdoing. Also, settlements usually mean the infraction wasn't over the top. Otherwise there would already be termination(s).

[FC4]

The longer this drags, the more likely he's gone. If this ordeal was indeed nothing significant, it would have been squashed right away and everyone would have moved on. It doesn't take a long time to pull text messages and get reports. It does take a long time to plan the cleanest or least messy separation and succession of a 20+ year exec.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Artemis

If legit: we cannot beat around the bush, £650K is lavish. But that ain't as such "incriminating enough" / "a sign of guilt". We don't know what the employee earned, her seniority, bonuses, perks, prospects, access to confidential RBR and Horner info and materials.

Yeah this is an odd amount. It seems more like an amount if someone left a company early and got a pay package. Their remaining salary, bonuses, etc. This doesn't scream like I have concrete evidence of a CEO from a major corporation sexual harassing me.

There is clearly a lot details the public has been kept from.

But again this is one media outlet releasing all these details. In the past few years we have learned media is not really to be trusted and they don't seem to care about slander.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by FC4

The longer this drags, the more likely he's gone. If this ordeal was indeed nothing significant, it would have been squashed right away and everyone would have moved on. It doesn't take a long time to pull text messages and get reports. It does take a long time to plan the cleanest or least messy separation and succession of a 20+ year exec.

Perhaps they're reworking a noncompete? If he feels this is a publicity issue he wants a buyout or some sort or voiding a non-compete? Just spit balling here

[MontyB1]

Mmmm not a great development for Redbull, Ford is getting a bit WTAF is going on with the investigation and why is it taking so long. Big corporates and sponsors don’t like to be associated with things like this if they can help it.

https://www.racefans.net/2024/02/25/...gation-report/

[G30M]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Mmmm not a great development for Redbull, Ford is getting a bit WTAF is going on with the investigation and why is it taking so long. Big corporates and sponsors don’t like to be associated with things like this if they can help it.

https://www.racefans.net/2024/02/25/...gation-report/

so far everything we have read are just rumours legends and hearsay

who knows what's actually going on

[3798j]

“As we have indicated previously, without satisfactory response, Ford’s values are non-negotiable. It is imperative that our racing partners share and demonstrate a genuine commitment to those same values. My team and I are available at any time to discuss this matter. We remain insistent on, and hopeful, for a resolution we can all stand behind.”
“Ford is increasingly frustrated, however, by the lack of resolution or clear indication from you about when you anticipate a fair and just resolution of this matter."
“We are likewise frustrated by the lack of full transparency surrounding this matter with us, your corporate partners, and look forward to receiving a complete account of all findings.”- - -Jim Farley CEO Ford

https://apnews.com/article/f1-red-bu...876caab1b67ff6