[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

1. Can you tell me in what teams?!
   
   
2. Were they systematically beaten by their team mates at the end of the season?!
   
   
3. For how long?!

If your point is that Kobi would be a good whipping boy for a top team, than maybe, just maybe that's true. I'm not a Webbo fan and think that the rumors of Kimi and Vettel being on the same team will make for a great season next year if it proves true.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

The first Alfa 4Cs will be sent to the U.S. market with an estimated $86,000 sticker

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...17-future-cars

Believing in that is believing in a suicidal Alfa Romeo.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

If your point is that Kobi would be a good whipping boy for a top team, than maybe, just maybe that's true.

So, you acknowledge that Massa and Webber are indeed whipping boys, right?!

However, Kobayashi has enough talent to beat anyone in the F1 right now in a mano-a-mano (hand to hand) race. That's his magic... just give him a proper car!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Believing in that is believing in a suicidal Alfa Romeo.

Isn't the 4C also component sharing with Dodge Dart for steering, braking, powertrain hardware?

I think that was the first hint of those tendencies, and the pricing is simply confirmation

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

So, you acknowledge that Massa and Webber are indeed whipping boys, right?!

However, Kobayashi has enough talent to beat anyone in the F1 right now in a mano-a-mano (hand to hand) race. That's his magic... just give him a proper car!

Of course Webbo is (the only person who doesn't seem to know that is Webbo), Massa has been in both roles, but with a recently dimished Fezza product. They've simply lost too many of their engineers over the last few seasons. With a comparable car, I think Massa is a competitive driver to all but a few top drivers.

I still don't see enough potential in Kobayashi to say that he'd be competitive against Kimi or Vettel, much less capable of beating either one in comparable cars.

Have UK prices for the LE or regular 4C been announced yet?

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I still don't see enough potential in Kobayashi to say that he'd be competitive against Kimi or Vettel, much less capable of beating either one in comparable cars.

As I said, give him a proper car.



PS: Massa was driving for Sauber before he went to Ferrari. That's precisely what I'm hopping it will happen to Kobayashi.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Isn't the 4C also component sharing with Dodge Dart for steering, braking, powertrain hardware?

I think that was the first hint of those tendencies, and the pricing is simply confirmation

The only thing we need to focus about the Alfa Romeo price tag is this figure:

$60k


if you really want one.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

As I said, give him a proper car.



PS: Massa was driving for Sauber before he went to Ferrari. That's precisely what I'm hopping it will happen to Kobayashi.

Except Massa went to Ferrari when they were doing great. Kobi ending up there now may not be much better than Sauber.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Except Massa went to Ferrari when they were doing great. Kobi ending up there now may not be much better than Sauber.

Not true! The 2014 season is the best opportunity of them all because everything will be somehow different with the new turbocharged engine and rules.

The starting ground will be more level for all drivers and Kobayshi will surely shine.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

$60k .... if you really want one.

I guess we will see when we are all able to compare 4C vs. C7 vs. 981 S

[gonzo]

Dodge Dart?

Really?

[Moegviralles]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Dodge Dart?

Really?

Guys, the Dart used a lot of Alfa Romeo Giulietta components..

The TCT gearbox and 1.4MultiAir Turbo comes from Alfa.

So the 4C is sharing components with its own family members.. Not taking it from the Dart. The Dart borrowed from Alfa.

And Alfa an unknown brand? Please its one of the longest surviving car brands in the world and has won races in more racing forms than most car brands will ever achieve..

[Red Bread]

Oh please. No one actually living has seen an Alfa win a race.

That's like saying you should eat Gouda because the Dutch are such a dominant power.

Alfa has a strong history, but also has spent the last fifty or so years largely building forgettable products. Feel free to bring up the one or two exceptions.

[Moegviralles]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Oh please. No one actually living has seen an Alfa win a race.

That's like saying you should eat Gouda because the Dutch are such a dominant power.

Alfa has a strong history, but also has spent the last fifty or so years largely building forgettable products. Feel free to bring up the one or two exceptions.

This comment just shows how uninformed you yanks are about Alfa.. Ask your German friends on this forum what happened to BMW when the ran into a 156 GTA in the European Touring Car Championships in the early 2000... Alfa killed them. Ignorance is bliss I guess

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Moegviralles

This comment just shows how uninformed you yanks are about Alfa.. Ask your German friends on this forum what happened to BMW when the ran into a 156 GTA in the European Touring Car Championships in the early 2000... Alfa killed them. Ignorance is bliss I guess

I will continue to ignore any and all fwd cars and avoid bragging about them. Unless we're talking about racing in reverse.

That's also only one of the exceptions I allowed. Any others?

[gonzo]

This Yank is informed enough.

Enough to never pay money for an Alfa .
Give me one and I'll drive the wheels off.
If they don't fall off first that is.

Beating a BMW ?
I don't think the letters have been mentioned in this thread.
Nobody is raging with BMW boners here.

[Red Bread]

Like I said, I've driven and enjoyed recent Alfas, but claiming their racing history as a plus is a bit like a Bentley driver saying they bought it for their strong racing history. Or Jaguar for that matter.

[gonzo]

I think someone should go check on captain gtf information.
He may be unconscious below his computer after seeing Dodge Dart.

[GoingTooFast]

[GoingTooFast]

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Moegviralles

This comment just shows how uninformed you yanks are about Alfa.. Ask your German friends on this forum what happened to BMW when the ran into a 156 GTA in the European Touring Car Championships in the early 2000... Alfa killed them. Ignorance is bliss I guess

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I will continue to ignore any and all fwd cars and avoid bragging about them. Unless we're talking about racing in reverse.

That's also only one of the exceptions I allowed. Any others?

Actually, it started with the Alfa Romeo 155 V6 Ti which dominated the very popular in Europe DTM (Deutsche Tourenwagen Meisterschaft) in 1993 against Opel and Mercedes after Audi and BMW had abandoned earlier. The interesting thing was:

In 1993, the Group A rules were abandoned in favor of a more liberalised 2.5 L engine category called FIA Class 1 Touring Cars, with extensive use of ABS, four-wheel drive, electronic driver aids and carbon fibre chassis, the former three were technologies that were banned from F1.

So, a AWD car (not FWD) with a carbonfiber chassis which was already showing Alfa's expertise in the field:

[Red Bread]

So absolutely nothing to do with an actual production car?

Back to two exceptions, if you'd like.