[Ganxxta]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

M GmbH won't touch this platform with a 100ft pole.

Like the X? oh wait...

[X3paul]

Originally Posted by Ganxxta

Like the X? oh wait...

Lol

[SCOTT26]

"Every inch a BMW"
Before the ranting on its FWD begins again let me clarify.

Strong proportions, longish hood, dynamic coupe-esque roofline, strong three dimensional surface design, big wheels, intricate detailing mixing sportiness and efficiency.
Design without complexities and an interior that makes the best use of cabin space with spatial qualities and surfaces surrounded by minimal switchgear in a minimalist lounge setting.

Are qualities that define every inch a BMW Sedan from the 3er to the 7er in its visual aesthetic. The Compact Sedan Concept fits in perfectly to introduce the BMW sedans from entry to flagship they share the same aesthetics and visual kinship.

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by Wolf

Remember scott when you said a couple of years ago that there will be no FWD 2 series? (Its a rhetorical question, don't bother answering). Anyway, will there be a RWD 2 series next gen? If yes, how low our chances in having a RWD 2 series after that? I personally think 2 to 3%.

@marketer26 i mean SCOTT26 please answer my question

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

M GmbH won't touch this platform with a 100ft pole.

Strong words.

TT RS, RS3, RS Q3, CLA45, A45, GLA45 - these are generally favorable products that on the whole recieve more commendation than condemnation. Surely there are decision makers inside BMW honest enough to acknowledge this. It's much easier to convince consumers not to buy from your competitors when you have a viable alternative to offer them.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Strong words.

TT RS, RS3, RS Q3, CLA45, A45, GLA45 - these are generally favorable products that on the whole recieve more commendation than condemnation. Surely there are decision makers inside BMW honest enough to acknowledge this. It's much easier to convince consumers not to buy from your competitors when you have a viable alternative to offer them.

As opposed to AMG (who are like street walkers in comparison), M GmbH is very deeply rooted in tradition. It took them a whole generation to agree to start making X5M and X6M (and only because it was obvious they would become huge money makers in the Middle East and Russia). The higher power Ms like M5 and M6 have been asking for AWD for years now - F90 in 2018 will be the first one to get it. Of course, a FWD M is possible at some point too, but it will take the M people a long time to agree to do it, and the current platform is likely not good enough anyway. Maybe an "M performance" something will eventually come out, but I will be really surprised if a "proper M" car in FWD is produced before we get the next iteration of UKL (G40?).

[PARTS@STBMW]

Yes looks amazing!

[TheBingoBalls]

I don't doubt we'll see BMW M start to play with FWD cars/platforms. Everybody gets caught up in the allusion of what BMW M is but at the end of the day, it's about performance regardless of powertrain, transmission, chassis. BMW will give them a platform and they will tweak it and make it a M car. I dare anyone to go out and drive a JCW Cooper and tell us BMW won't have the slightest clue how to make a high performance FWD car.

The days of a brand having to be x and y are over. Every company in this segment are changing and moving a bit away from what we originally knew them as/for. I'm sure traditional fans of Cadillac and Lexus are complaining that they're going a bit too sporty like BMW fans are complaining that they're becoming too soft.

[X3paul]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

"Every inch a BMW"
Before the ranting on its FWD begins again let me clarify.

Strong proportions, longish hood, dynamic coupe-esque roofline, strong three dimensional surface design, big wheels, intricate detailing mixing sportiness and efficiency.
Design without complexities and an interior that makes the best use of cabin space with spatial qualities and surfaces surrounded by minimal switchgear in a minimalist lounge setting.

Are qualities that define every inch a BMW Sedan from the 3er to the 7er in its visual aesthetic. The Compact Sedan Concept fits in perfectly to introduce the BMW sedans from entry to flagship they share the same aesthetics and visual kinship.

Are you beeing held captive??? Maybe thats it!! You are beeing held at gun point and the only way you can send a message for help is to say as much bs as possible so that we start getting suspcious and send help! That must be it. No worries I am calling the cops right now

Ps - considering your company claims to build "the ultimate driving machine" dont you find it strange that in your robot like post there is no mention of what a great drivers car it will be? Remember 50:50 weight dstrb etc etc? I think that says it all of bmw's xx1st century goals for the brand. No worries: the 2nd hand market has plenty of choice

[Leo_328i]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

"Every inch a BMW"
Before the ranting on its FWD begins again let me clarify.

Strong proportions, longish hood, dynamic coupe-esque roofline, strong three dimensional surface design, big wheels, intricate detailing mixing sportiness and efficiency.
Design without complexities and an interior that makes the best use of cabin space with spatial qualities and surfaces surrounded by minimal switchgear in a minimalist lounge setting.

Are qualities that define every inch a BMW Sedan from the 3er to the 7er in its visual aesthetic. The Compact Sedan Concept fits in perfectly to introduce the BMW sedans from entry to flagship they share the same aesthetics and visual kinship.

Couldn't agree more - it does look great and it looks every inch a BMW - it actually makes me smile looking at it. Having said that, as an enthusiast customer, I feel somewhat betrayed as it doesn't have some core ingredients that, to me, makes a BMW.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...arting-scratch

Reading this article about Alfa Romeo's plan to re-emerge as a big player to me is promising.

The key thing here is:

“An important part of our job is to make the existing Alfisti happy,” he acknowledges. “It is wonderful, knowing how many people have continued to support our brand in its bad years.

With BMW going away from their hallmark characteristics and trying to build cars to please everyone - as an enthusiast customer, I am looking for a new brand that will cater for me as an enthusiast.

When I watch a new video on a Porsche GT car with Andreas Preuninger describing the detail of their new car, this is truly fantastic and makes me aspire to own a Porsche, not a BMW.

I used to get this with Albert Biermann at BMW M and he's gone off to Hyundai now which says a lot.

For me, Porsche and Alfa Romeo are the ones I have my eyes on.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by Leo_328i

With BMW going away from their hallmark characteristics and trying to build cars to please everyone - as an enthusiast customer, I am looking for a new brand that will cater for me as an enthusiast.

When I watch a new video on a Porsche GT car with Andreas Preuninger describing the detail of their new car, this is truly fantastic and makes me aspire to own a Porsche, not a BMW.

I used to get this with Albert Biermann at BMW M and he's gone off to Hyundai now which says a lot.

For me, Porsche and Alfa Romeo are the ones I have my eyes on.

Not trying to tell you that your opinions are wrong, but I think this is a case of seeing what you want to see. Alfa have done very little in recent times but sell ugly small hatchbacks, and if you go further in that article...

We have to find more customers, and the way to do that is by providing what they want. Fancy niche models will not contribute very much to our stability.” He does not say “like the 4C” but it is clear this is what he’s thinking.

Where are these new customers? Wester slips into the ‘professor’ guise he wears rather well. Last year, he explains, around 90 million cars were sold worldwide. Nine million were premium cars – and a remarkable two-thirds of those fell into just four sectors: full-sized saloon, full-sized SUV, mid-sized saloon and mid-sized SUV. Who can be surprised that Alfa plans to launch products in these classes to build its eight-model future?

So it's pretty clear that Alfa Romeo is going to end up with the bones of a product portfolio that is fairly similar to the main stream. Given that the majority of their products over recent decades have been FWD, other than mentioning the Alfisti what have Alfa done to prove they are any more deserving than BMW?

Porsche is a different case perhaps, they're a sportscar maker that has branched out into SUV's and the like to survive. BMW were never a sportscar maker first and foremost, and have always branched out in order to survive.

[mkoesel]

M avoided AWD passenger cars only because they did not need them in order to compete - not because of some dogmatic commitment to RWD. Believe that if an AWD C63 were here ten years ago, then you'd have an AWD M5 long ago as well.

There will be zero FWD M cars for sure, but there will be many AWD M cars. Two generations from now, all of them might very well be, in fact. There is nothing holding Back a UKL M offering but time to develop the appropriate chassis and powertrain. The platform will absolutely accommodate it.

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

As opposed to AMG (who are like street walkers in comparison), M GmbH is very deeply rooted in tradition. It took them a whole generation to agree to start making X5M and X6M (and only because it was obvious they would become huge money makers in the Middle East and Russia). The higher power Ms like M5 and M6 have been asking for AWD for years now - F90 in 2018 will be the first one to get it. Of course, a FWD M is possible at some point too, but it will take the M people a long time to agree to do it, and the current platform is likely not good enough anyway. Maybe an "M performance" something will eventually come out, but I will be really surprised if a "proper M" car in FWD is produced before we get the next iteration of UKL (G40?).

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The complete lack of test cars in the wild tells me "no".

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/07/06/is...es-gran-coupe/

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/07/06/is...es-gran-coupe/

Cool pics.

But, in case it isn't clear - even the author of this speculative article does not believe this is an F2x car. He specifically mentions the platform shared with the 3/5/7 - cars which themselves won't share a common platform until next generation, i.e. CLAR (starting with the new 2016 G10/G11 7 Series).

So even if this is not UKL - which, BTW, I think is far from confirmed by these spy shots since to me they look as much like a UKL proportioned vehicle as the known-to-be-UKL 1 Series spy shots we've seen - it isn't a current generation car either.

In other words this doesn't change what's going on in the near term, and I stand by my earlier words. No F2x GC spyshots = no F2X GC = no F8x M2 GC.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Cool pics.

But, in case it isn't clear - even the author of this speculative article does not believe this is an F2x car. He specifically mentions the platform shared with the 3/5/7 - cars which themselves won't share a common platform until next generation, i.e. CLAR (starting with the new 2016 G10/G11 7 Series).

So even if this is not UKL - which, BTW, I think is far from confirmed by these spy shots since to me they look as much like a UKL proportioned vehicle as the known-to-be-UKL 1 Series spy shots we've seen - it isn't a current generation car either.

In other words this doesn't change what's going on in the near term, and I stand by my earlier words. No F2x GC spyshots = no F2X GC = no F8x M2 GC.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/24/bm...rrive-in-2019/

Itzok!

I got my Money on Klaus...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

"Every inch a BMW"
Before the ranting on its FWD begins again let me clarify.

Strong proportions, longish hood, dynamic coupe-esque roofline, strong three dimensional surface design, big wheels, intricate detailing mixing sportiness and efficiency.
Design without complexities and an interior that makes the best use of cabin space with spatial qualities and surfaces surrounded by minimal switchgear in a minimalist lounge setting.

Are qualities that define every inch a BMW Sedan from the 3er to the 7er in its visual aesthetic. The Compact Sedan Concept fits in perfectly to introduce the BMW sedans from entry to flagship they share the same aesthetics and visual kinship.

BIG WHEELZ....? damn yo! now BMW is going for the inner city U.S. market too!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/24/bm...rrive-in-2019/

Itzok!

I got my Money on Klaus...

If it arrives in 2019, the lifecycle of the 2 Series Gran Coupe will be a fairly short one since the second generation 2 Series will be out in 2021.

A brand new car on a platform going out of production two years later? This actually sounds reasonable to you?

I'll take the bet. How much you willing to throw down?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

A brand new car on a platform going out of production two years later? This actually sounds reasonable to you?

I'll take the bet. How much you willing to throw down?

I like the original odds..

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I'll tell you what - if a RWD F8x M2 GC comes to market, and you purchase/lease one, I've got your first payment covered. I am confident my money is safe though.

no need to go all crazy and double down.. I gotta make the rest of the payments

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I like the original odds..

no need to go all crazy and double down.. I gotta make the rest of the payments

So you're all troll and no go, just as it has appeared all along. Okey dokey then.

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

I got my Money on Klaus...

Just wanted to point out the minor mistake here - you would have money on Klaus if you actually believed what you are telling us.

Anyway, we've veered far enough off topic, so we can just end the sidebar here. PM me when you decide to stand behind your words.

[-EndOfAnEra-]

Food for thought for us.

If we accept that this concept will end up on a FWD platform, and also that the future trend will be towards FWD for marketshare, is there a possibility that an XDrive version could be built that would allow for a very strong rear bias? I know FWD platform Audis with Quattro have built 40/60 rear-biased AWD for a while now, would it be possible to simply tune the transfer to a 10/90 or even 0/100 split?

If so, then this is not the catastrophe that it seems. Perhaps future tuning by the aftermarket will focus on bringing back a RWD feel to cars sold with Xdrive?

[SCOTT26]

The Code has been cracked.

http://www.**************.com/thread...-6#post-772160

[marcva]

Huh? Bias adjusted awd platform? Bit of a weight handicap unless the CFRP research has been coming along better than bmw is discussing (which is certainly a possibility).

Watch and wait, I suppose.

Marc