[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Just to prove the point that it is about how you take corners, all you need to do is watch one of these to see that the line Max takes which is much tighter than anyone else (Lec is close) is where he uses his ability to control the car and get out of corners better despite braking earlier. If you were to measure his distance traveled on a lap it would be shorter than anyone else's due to his lines. Other than Lec, I don't think anyone else quite has the ability to do this at nearly the same level and that is what separates him. Plus again, his car does not have any distinct material advantage over the other cars on the grid other than him driving it.

The people working in F1 are some of the very smartest people in their field (the drivers maybe not so much). Teams put an extraordinary amount of effort, time and computing power in maximising a cars on track performance. If a particular (different) line suited a competitors cars characteristics then that would not go unnoticed by other teams and copied to see if it produced any benefit for their car. I'm not sure Perez represents a good yardstick with which to judge corner speed given he would have his car set up differently (as much as is possible) to Verstappens and is inherently a quite average racer.

If you are interested you should watch some in car clips of Alonso . He prefers corner entry understeer as a trade off for exception grip at the rear allowing him to get out of the corner earlier and much quicker.
Its not that he has invented a new way of going faster in turns, just maximising the characteristics of the car for the way he likes the car to handle. He won his championships in a Renault (against Schumacher) that had a woeful amount of understeer.

Its not that Verstappens preference for a pointy car and how he can best optimise his corner speed or Alonsos preference for maximum rear grip and his ability to get the car straighter quicker in a turn represents the maximum potential of their respective cars...IOW if the car was designed solely for maximum performance and driven by a robot the car could likely be quicker with more neutral handling characteristics.
Swap Verstappen and Alonso into the others car and they would both struggle.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

The people working in F1 are some of the very smartest people in their field (the drivers maybe not so much). Teams put an extraordinary amount of effort, time and computing power in maximising a cars on track performance. If a particular (different) line suited a competitors cars characteristics then that would not go unnoticed by other teams and copied to see if it produced any benefit for their car. I'm not sure Perez represents a good yardstick with which to judge corner speed given he would have his car set up differently (as much as is possible) to Verstappens and is inherently a quite average racer.

If you are interested you should watch some in car clips of Alonso . He prefers corner entry understeer as a trade off for exception grip at the rear allowing him to get out of the corner earlier and much quicker.
Its not that he has invented a new way of going faster in turns, just maximising the characteristics of the car for the way he likes the car to handle. He won his championships in a Renault (against Schumacher) that had a woeful amount of understeer.

Its not that Verstappens preference for a pointy car and how he can best optimise his corner speed or Alonsos preference for maximum rear grip and his ability to get the car straighter quicker in a turn represents the maximum potential of their respective cars...IOW if the car was designed solely for maximum performance and driven by a robot the car could likely be quicker with more neutral handling characteristics.
Swap Verstappen and Alonso into the others car and they would both struggle.

Yes, Alo style of scrubbing speed with understeer is odd to me. He always looks to be manhandling the car.

On the latter though, Max is much more adaptable IMO. The RB18, particularly, initially had understeer which he didnt like yet he was able to get the most out of it. He just drives what is given to him and is agile and talented enough to drive whatever the car gives him. Probably why he can race a variety of different sim car that require different driving and win in all of them like it's F1. I dont think anyone else in F1 is this dynamic. They usually can only drive what they like and cant do much unless it's 100% to their style (Ham being one of the biggest culprits).

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

On the latter though, Max is much more adaptable IMO. The RB18, particularly, initially had understeer which he didnt like yet he was able to get the most out of it. He just drives what is given to him and is agile and talented enough to drive whatever the car gives him. Probably why he can race a variety of different sim car that require different driving and win in all of them like it's F1. I dont think anyone else in F1 is this dynamic. They usually can only drive what they like and cant do much unless it's 100% to their style (Ham being one of the biggest culprits).

Not totally sure..it seems in practice sessions when if the car is not to Verstappens style he can struggle with pace.

On Hamilton, again going back to his first year in F1 with no experience in setting up the car he took whatever set up he was given by the team..usually a copy of Alonso's set up...until after Silverstone (When Alonso refused to keep on sharing his set up) where he took the default set up for the track they were racing on. And we know how that year played out.

My son-in-laws friend Neighbour and mutual friend was a design concept engineer for the Mercedes F1 team and spoke of how highly the F1 team regarded Hamilton as a racer and as a person.
During the period when the new regs caused massive porpoising..especially in the Mercedes..it was Hamilton that was given the job of running all the experimental set ups trying to improve the way the car handled. He didn't care that George was getting an optimised more standardised set up for the track and was therefore apparently performing better.

Sadly the engineer has since been poached by Alpine and moved down near Oxford so we don't see him anymore..though we still exchange whatsapps but its not the same as face to face..

[M5Rick]

Some positive news in is that Essex man Bearman is in line to replace Hulkenberg for '25 who is set to retire from Haas at the end of the season.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/27558...lkenberg-haas/

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Not totally sure..it seems in practice sessions when if the car is not to Verstappens style he can struggle with pace.

On Hamilton, again going back to his first year in F1 with no experience in setting up the car he took whatever set up he was given by the team..usually a copy of Alonso's set up...until after Silverstone (When Alonso refused to keep on sharing his set up) where he took the default set up for the track they were racing on. And we know how that year played out.

My son-in-laws friend Neighbour and mutual friend was a design concept engineer for Mercedes and spoke of how highly the F1 team regarded Hamilton as a racer and as a person.
During the period when the new regs caused massive porpoising..especially in the Mercedes..it was Hamilton that was given the job of running all the experimental set ups trying to improve the way the car handled. He didn't care that George was getting an optimised more standardised set up for the track and was therefore apparently performing better.

Sadly the engineer has since been poached by Alpine and moved down near Oxford so we don't see him anymore..though we still exchange whatsapps but its not the same as face to face..

When does Max stuggle with pace? You must be confusing him for Ham who usually doesnt have much of it. Honda requires that the engines be turned down for practice sessions, yet Max is THE ONLY one who goes to practice sessions and usually leads or is near the top of them. Usually his times on Hard or Medium tires is as fast or faster than those on Softs. Albon has said when he was there, Max would get the car set-up in almost no time at all which was astonishing.
Well, we know Ham got a WDC winning car right away, and only won because of blatant cheating (that result should have been voided knowing there was cheating going on). Beyond that, I've heard he got upgrades Alo didnt because they were favoring him and he still didnt beat him on points. Max at the same age, same car would have destroyed Alo or Ham. That's why Ham always had a 'no Max' clause. He was terrified of his talent.
It's always funny the excuses we hear about why Ham isnt fast. His setup had experimental parts, he chose a 50/50 setup and lost (every time??), he went the wrong direction on the front wing. It's like he will make any excuse to deter from the fact that is it glaringly true that when he doesnt have a material advantage like he did with the MB of 80-100 hp over every other car, he just isnt that good. And if you remove the 2014-2021 time frame, he had a dominant Mclaren in 07-08 and only won because of cheating, and then 2009-2013 (2nd best car), and 2022-2023 (2nd best car) and so far 2024 his stats are overwhelmingly poor at best.
Max can and would outdrive him in any car, any day of the week. I'd love to see them both in spec cars and watch the excuses from Ham on why he cant put up the pace.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

When does Max stuggle with pace? You must be confusing him for Ham who usually does have much of it. Honda requires that the engines be turned down for practice sessions, yet Max is THE ONLY one who goes to practice sessions and usually leads or is near the top of them. Usually his times on Hard or Medium tires is as fast or faster than those on softs. Albon has said when he was ther, Max would get the car set-up in almost no time at all which was astonishing.
Well, we know Ham got a WDC car right away, and only won because of blatant cheating. Beyond that, I've heard he got upgrades Alo didnt because they were favoring him and he still didnt beat him on points. Max at the same age, same car would have destroyed Alo or Ham. That's why Ham always had a 'no Max' clause. He was terrified of his talent.

I couldn't agree more

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

When does Max stuggle with pace? You must be confusing him for Ham who usually doesnt have much of it. Honda requires that the engines be turned down for practice sessions, yet Max is THE ONLY one who goes to practice sessions and usually leads or is near the top of them. Usually his times on Hard or Medium tires is as fast or faster than those on Softs. Albon has said when he was there, Max would get the car set-up in almost no time at all which was astonishing.
Well, we know Ham got a WDC winning car right away, and only won because of blatant cheating (that result should have been voided knowing there was cheating going on). Beyond that, I've heard he got upgrades Alo didnt because they were favoring him and he still didnt beat him on points. Max at the same age, same car would have destroyed Alo or Ham. That's why Ham always had a 'no Max' clause. He was terrified of his talent.
It's always funny the excuses we hear about why Ham isnt fast. His setup had experimental parts, he chose a 50/50 setup and lost (every time??), he went the wrong direction on the front wing. It's like he will make any excuse to deter from the fact that is it glaringly true that when he doesnt have a material advantage like he did with the MB of 80-100 hp over every other car, he just isnt that good. And if you remove the 2014-2021 time frame, he had a dominant Mclaren in 07-08 and only won because of cheating, and then 2009-2013 (2nd best car), and 2022-2023 (2nd best car) and so far 2024 his stats are overwhelmingly poor at best.
Max can and would outdrive him in any car, any day of the week. I'd love to see them both in spec cars and watch the excuses from Ham on why he cant put up the pace.

Ah OK..my mistake...I thought you knew something about F1.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Ah OK..my mistake...I thought you knew something about F1.

Mate . We can see and feel your pain ...

#ButtHurt !

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Ah OK..my mistake...I thought you knew something about F1.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Ah OK..my mistake...I thought you knew something about F1.

LOL When there is no counter argument or retort you resort to this?

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

LOL When there is no counter argument or retort you resort to this?

A counter argument to Verstappen would be faster than Hamilton in the same car....too funny.
Not only could Verstappen hardly beat Ricciardo in the same car, he could barely have a race in the first 2-3 years without crashing into something or somebody.
It was a standing joke in the press conferences in those days asking Verstappen when he was going to stop crashing.
Verstappen is winning in a supremely dominant car, why would he not.
But he is no Hamilton.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

A counter argument to Verstappen would be faster than Hamilton in the same car....too funny.
Not only could Verstappen hardly beat Ricciardo in the same car, he could barely have a race in the first 2-3 years without crashing into something or somebody.
It was a standing joke in the press conferences in those days asking Verstappen when he was going to stop crashing.
Verstappen is winning in a supremely dominant car, why would he not.
But he is no Hamilton.

Max was 17 when he entered F1 and that was when Ric was at his peak in F1 and was quite good. Yet Max with almost no experience had the same number of wins and 1 less podium. Ham was what? 23? Huge difference in maturity. Let's also not forget that Ham lost to Ros who wasnt that good.
Let's compare that to Max at 23 years, where he, in an inferior car, not only beat Ham, but put up a better season than Ham ever has. His car is not at all dominant if you look at the stats - he is. Stats of 1-2 finsihes, gaps to the rest of the field all place the w05/06 ahead of both the RB18/19 and w11 is right there too.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Some positive news in is that Essex man Bearman is in line to replace Hulkenberg for '25 who is set to retire from Haas at the end of the season.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/27558...lkenberg-haas/

Lando is just too wild !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Lando is just too wild !

Fast but fragile when it comes to partying and celebrating, a whoopsie a minute with him overdoing it

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Fast but fragile when it comes to partying and celebrating, a whoopsie a minute with him overdoing it

MAX's helmet for Miami . WOW !!!

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

MAX's helmet for Miami . WOW !!!

Good to see the Stars & Stripes on it

Stars and Bars would be better but snowflakes would have a meltdown.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Good to see the Stars & Stripes on it

Stars and Bars would be better but snowflakes would have a meltdown.

Thank you my friend

Yeah. MAX's helmet for the American races looks fantastic

God bless America !!!

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Good to see the Stars & Stripes on it

Stars and Bars would be better but snowflakes would have a meltdown.

I wouldn't mind Stars in Bars so long as they drank IPA

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

MAX's helmet for Miami . WOW !!!

That's one killer Lions helmet for Miami, should get the fans ROARING

[M5Rick]

Man, B/P is a waiting time today.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Man, B/P is a waiting time today.

Yeah . Bimmerpost is extremely slow (again)!

And I just watched this again ...
I mean : Imagine if this happened at 300+ km/h ?!?!
Don't dare to think about it ...Think MAX was very lucky it happened in the pitlane...(see 1:10)

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Yeah . Bimmerpost is extremely slow (again)!

And I just watched this again ...
I mean : Imagine if this happened at 300+ km/h ?!?!
Don't dare to think about it ...Think MAX was very lucky it happened in the pitlane...

=>

Still no follow up final on this as to exact cause of the brake igniting, last I heard it was an 'assembly error.'