[gonzo]

Thanks.
That is more space than I thought.
Big hands and feet.. 6'2"...may be like a sardine in a tin for me.Under 200 lbs so at least my arse isn't huge. Ha.
I like to have a small car around and unless my head scrapes, I am used to confined quarters.

I was ragging on Alfa and would not be a "first few to buy" , but once some miles are put on these and service questions answered...kind of really liking it.


Notice how the haunches are pronounced on the matt car car vs the white one in the LE pic.
Had a pearl white car about 8 years ago and would want to see all colors.
I would want to see those great lines from afar.

[GoingTooFast]

Plenty of opportunities to see Alfa Romeo's great lines from every perspective in the coming years...

[gonzo]

The launch edition is right at 80k US?

Small...gulp.
I thought I had read around 60 US.

No, I have not read this entire thread.

[GoingTooFast]

It depends if we are talking about LE or the standard version. Are you thinking about purchase one Alfa Romeo?!

If you are that interested, there will be also plenty of opportunities for each and every wallet to buy one in the coming years... so don't you worry if you can't manage to buy one from the first batch. It is definitely worth saving some money in order to be able to have something so special... also, think how much you can save on petrol afterwards and, better still, without needing to drive slow.

But, I understand your frustation... the wait can kill you.

[GoingTooFast]

My father, the Alfa male

by ASHLEY NICOLA WALI

It has been 46 years since Dustin Hoffman made Alfa Romeo famous in The Graduate, piloting his fire-engine-red graduation gift all over the silver screen. Now, the Italian automaker is making a triumphant return to the United States after a long hiatus, and it is making it with the ALFA ROMEO 4C.

It’s hard to imagine an American kid being brainwashed by slow doses of stories of growing up around Italian Alfas. But that’s me, and my dad is the storyteller. His infatuation with Alfas began while growing up around his Uncle Steve’s Alfa dealership in St. Asaph, Wales. His obsession with exotic cars grew with a steady diet of hours spent at the dealership (rather than doing homework) and riding alongside his Uncle Steve. The Alfas represented something far away and mysterious, compared to his quaint hometown, St. Asaph, with its Dickensian air and small roads meandering through valleys of green. There is nothing more distracting than that bucolic setting being punctuated by the netherworld sound of an Alfa. And now, a lifetime later, Dad is first on the waiting list at an Austin dealership*for a new 4C.

I had to know more about the impending new toy. When I asked Alfa Romeo’s chief exterior designer, Alessandro Maccolini, to detail his inspirations, I expected a cookie-cutter response mixed with lofty claims. In contrast, Maccolini defined the design process as “a task closer to that of a specialist tailor who has to create a suit around the body of an athlete.” The compact sports car borrows from Alfa’s iconic 33 Stradale of the late 1960s, but with modern aesthetics and exaggerated proportions. Its lithe body is muscular, its stance aggressive. The 4C’s minimalist design is carried through the interior as well, with subtle details such as exposed carbon fiber in the cockpit and contrast stitching on the leathers. The 4C Launch Edition comes in just two superchic hues: a heavenly matte white and a devilish glossy red. Only 500 of the handsome coupes will debut in the U.S. later this year, and pricing has not been announced.

Maccolini envisions the 4C driver to be “sporty.” He explains that when driving the car, “you need to imagine the approach that a motorcyclist might have to his bike,” because, he says, “they are each an extension of the other.” (Has Alfa done the impossible? Has it found the sweet spot where man and machine become one?) The 4C’s pièce de résistance is not its brawny turbo engine or its rapid acceleration, but its feather-light weight. It is a skeletal 1,900 pounds, with a superlight carbon-fiber chassis — a recipe that may make it devour curves better than a Bugatti. With about 240 horsepower and a zero-to-60 time of 4.5 seconds, the mid-engine coupe is already in Porsche 911 territory.

When my dad left the U.K., his uncle’s parting gift to him was a model Alfa Romeo. While my dad is looking forward to getting behind the wheel of his 4C, I am looking forward to stealing his 4C — just like I did the model car.

[GoingTooFast]

Red Alfa Romeo in 'The Graduate'... great movie, great actor, great soundtrack, great 'little' car...

[GoingTooFast]

...

The new Alfa Romeo Spider will blend lightweight engineering and modern styling with an accessible chassis and a power output of 168bhp when it goes on sale in late 2015.

Based on the next-generation Mazda MX-5 platform and to be built in Japan, the new Spider’s styling is close to final sign-off.

The work is that of Marco Tencone, design chief at Alfa Romeo and Maserati, and his team at Fiat’s Centro Stile and a satellite studio in Japan.

Tencone’s most recent cars are the Alfa 4C sports car and the new Maserati Quattroporte and Ghibli saloons. Pininfarina, which designed the original boat-tail ‘Duetto’ in the mid-1960s, is understood not to be involved in the design of the new Spider, despite creating the striking 2010 Duettotanta concept.

The Duettotanta blended the slender boat-tail proportions of the original with contemporary body surfacing. Insiders say Centro Stile strived for months to make the design work on a production car.

It is likely that Tencone will take a similar approach for the new Spider, looking at historic design themes but with a very modern interpretation, just as the 33 Stradale has been reimagined for the 4C.

“The new Spider definitely won’t be retro in design,” said a well placed source. “The Spider has to be contemporary and must fit into the range with the modern 4C.”

Another source added: “It would have been easy to go for a retro, boat-tail design, but how would that fit in with the 4C and today’s Alfa designs?”

[Moegviralles]

Storage space is 110l in the rear.

Bonnet is bolted so it cannot open.

The LE pearl color is AMAZING!! But I am worried about keeping it like that. So I opted for Red.

Apparently 6 foot 3 just fits in the 4C (when wearing a helmet for a track day).

So if you 6 foot 2 like I am you should fit in the 4C.

[GoingTooFast]

You can do it with the 1M...

... now try to do it in a F1 car in a bumpy, wet public road with side barriers all over the place... kudos to you Kobayashi , l can't wait to see you driving for Ferrari in the 2014 F1 season, the sport needs you :

[GoingTooFast]

This following vid shows how difficult it is to drive a F1 car in the rain and in a proper track (let alone a bumpy, ruted public road)... Patrick Depailler who you can see here "never quite drove the kind of machinery his talent deserved" to end up being killed in a crash at Hockenheim on 1 August 1980 - exactly 33 years ago - during a private testing session for the then newly formed Alfa Romeo team...

[GoingTooFast]

Test session with the Marlboro Team Alfa Romeo's F1 car, the V12 engined Alfa Romeo 179 driven by Patrick Depailler in 1980:

[GoingTooFast]

You can see Kobayashi in action drifting the 2011 Sauber (min 1:30) in the same Montreal wet track 33 years later...

[GoingTooFast]

Alfa Romeo 4C on the racetrack driven by former F1 driver Marc Gené...

[GoingTooFast]

I 4C a perfect toy...

[GoingTooFast]

Finally, some good news regarding BMW...

If the new turbocharged inline-6 will only produce 10 hp more than the previous V8 engine AND at the same time they were able to shave 75 kg of weight off the late M3 in the new one it means that the focus was put in the weight reduction instead of power output increase...

More importantly, it also means that if the same weight reduction is applied to the upcoming M2 model when compared to the present 1M (1570 kg) the overall weight of the new baby-M will be NO greater than the 1500 kg mark which I have been defending here (read previous posts) as a desirable target... these are good news indeed!

Now, just put a tri-turbo M diesel engine in it and for sure we will have the perfect M2... the one with NO competition whatsoever, EVER!!!

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Finally, some good news regarding BMW...

If the new turbocharged inline-6 will only produce 10 hp more than the previous V8 engine AND at the same time they were able to shave 75 kg of weight off the late M3 in the new one it means that the focus was put in the weight reduction instead of power output increase...

More importantly, it also means that if the same weight reduction is applied to the upcoming M2 model compared to the present 1M (1570 kg) the overall weight of the new baby-M will be NO greater than the 1500 kg mark which I have been defending here (read previous posts) as a desirable target... these are good news indeed!

Now, just put a tri-turbo M diesel engine in it and for sure we will have the perfect M2... the one with NO competition whatsoever, EVER!!!

Yeah, sure... Com'on, stop your BS. Sure the M2 with tri-turbo diesel will be killer with is 60:50 weight distribution.

[GoingTooFast]

It is promising, though... I think it shows the lower weight and the longer wheelbase :

[GoingTooFast]

With a 75kg weight reduction from its predecessor the new M3 will match the 1M weight... in my book, this is very meaningful and more so if we take into account that the engine power output is only 10hp higher.

Those two factors combined with the MUCH higher torque achieved from the turbocharged 3.0-liter engine for sure will mean better fuel-efficiency, better performance and better handling, the latter benefiting also from the longer wheelbase. This way, it will rely MUCH less on the adaptative dampers.

I'm really surprised... well done BMW, well done!!!

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

Yeah, sure... Com'on, stop your BS. Sure the M2 with tri-turbo diesel will be killer with is 60:50 weight distribution.

Wow... we have a serious angry Levi here, calm down dude!

Do you really think that if I had other choice I would choose a car like the Alfa 4C for my ONLY one DD car?!

Why do you think I bought the 1M coming from a Cayman?!

Do you find acceptable that in order to take real adavantage of having a supposedly killer 50:50 weight distibution car like the 1M, that still understeers big time unless you are constantly going sideways, I need to put an average fuel consumption of 18.5 l/100 km?!

Well... I don't!

I would buy a M diesel car in a blink of the eye if only there was one or even a 1480kg M225d with a proper LSD for that matter.

You see, if you take the BMW 328i and 328d sedans for the US market, both with single-trubocharged 2.0-liter engines and automatic gearboxes, you get the following quoted specs:

.................................................. ........... 328i.............................. 328d
Weight (lbs)........................................... 3410............................. 3460
Weight distribution, front/rear (%)........ 50/50 ........................... 49.1/50.9
Nominal output (hp)............................... 240 .............................. 180
Max. torque (lb-ft).................................. 255 .............................. 280
Acceleration 0-60 mph (s)...................... 5.8 ................................ 7.4
City/Highway (mpg)............................... 23/33 ........................... 32/45


As you can see, except for the engines (the petrol and diesel engines share up to 40% of the components, nonetheless) they are identical cars, with identical overall weight and identical weight distribution with the diesel version being so ever slightly more rear heavy... go figure!

Sure if you had more torque and power by adding two more turbos for a complete M three-turbo 2.0-liter diesel engine the overall engine weight would increase but since to cope with the much increased torque you would also need stronger, bigger, heavier transmission, drive shaft, rear differential, rear drive axles and so on... you can balance the weight at the expense of the increased overall car weight. That's a BIG price to pay dinamically but... if, on the other hand, you were able to keep the weight down to no more than 1500 kg by the careful use of lighter materials (like they've done in the upcoming M3) then the fuel efficiency would go sky rocket without sacrificing much in the performance and handling departements and even less when compared to what BMW has to offer right now!

I want to buy the Alfa 4C because it still offers me the daily practicality that I need, eventhough it's far from the ideal I reckon (it's the minimum acceptable). However, the Alfa 4C advantages are SO MANY and so HUGE that to me it becomes a small price to pay.

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.
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[GoingTooFast]

Levi,

To better understand how you can balance the weight of the car front/rear depending on the engine choice, petrol or diesel, you can see that there is several options of the ZF 8-speed automatic transmission with different weights. This gearbox is used, for instance, by several BMW car models.

The ZF 8HP, designed and built by ZF, has several variants depending on the torque handling limit (@ some power) for which they are designed and their weights vary accordingly:

ZF 8HP variants........................... max. gasoline torque (N·m)............. max. diesel torque (N·m)

8HP30............................................. ................ 300.............................................. 300
8HP45
(845RE by Chrysler)........................................ 450............................................. 500
8HP55............................................. ................. 550............................................. 550
8HP70............................................. ................. 700............................................. 700
8HP90............................................. ................. 900............................................. 1000

[GoingTooFast]

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Alfa Romeo 4C on the racetrack driven by former F1 driver Marc Gené...

Why does it look like it has a lot of understeer? It one corner looks like understeer, then into a snap oversteer.